Need your advice: solar and heat pump

[alex276]

Hello,

I'm about to meet some companies for a project of solar hot water balloon and heat pumps, many opinions diverge, and to tell the truth, I am already lost even before having met my interlocutors.

We have a house of 125m² habitable on total soil dating from 1975 cinderblock building lined with red brick (according to the words of some entrepreneurs it is a house rather well insulated), attic amménagée and done again for nine (deco) moderately isolated, a roof in good condition (about the firefighters who have galore to access a swarm of drones) steel radiators, an ELM boiler 9kw, insufficient to get hot water quickly (or large water consumption) and no water balloon. We have already replaced all windows, install a wood stove (invicta), put a composter and a water recuperator in the garden, in short we try our small level to preserve our environment. We now want to find a solution for heating and hot water production.

Our approach is especially ecological with of course a concern to make some savings (do not reduce our gas consumption to explode that of electricity), so far what are the solutions available on the market that offer the best compromise between approach ecological, installation cost, financial economy ??? PAC air / water, high temperature heat pump, solar energy, thermodynamics ... We would like to finance this project with the eco-interest rate zero, we must realize a bouquet of 2 work and have a budget of 20 000.00 euros.

Everyone announcing their product as the best difficult to navigate.

in advance thank you for all the help and valuable advice you can bring me.

Alex

[Christophe]

If you seek ecology, forget the heat pumpsunless you have a renewable energy source that can be used directly (big wind, mill ...).

Here are some thoughts: https://www.econologie.com/forums/arnaques-e ... t7853.html

(...)

The scam number 1 is done in my opinion on the heat pumps:

a) it is presented as an "infinite" and "inexhaustible" energy, this is false because it is indirect solar energy (except geothermal energy on groundwater and more ...)

b) they are presented as clean energy: it is false, it depends on the way in which the electricity is made (in France on CO2 it is "correct" but in Germany or the USA, a heat pump CAN reject more CO2 than a gas boiler for the same given useful energy). It therefore remains electric heating.

c) the advertised COP is always the best, under laboratory conditions. We never see the term COPA (annualized COP!) Which is what really matters to the user!

d) we never talk about the lifetime of an installation and its maintenance costs (few compressor running 10 h per day exceed 10 years of service life!)

e) we NEVER talk about primary energy about the PAC, but in France it would be necessary to divide the COP by 2.58 to arrive at primary energy. This is the primary energy that is taken into account in the DPE!

e bis) for info, our solar system has a COP of 70 ... and any vacuum solar system has a COP> 100 !! (compare to the 5 of the best PACs)!

g) An obvious overcharging is done to take advantage of the subsidies, which benefit more the seller than the buyer in fine! But unfortunately this concerns almost everything that is subsidized ...

Finally it is probably the biggest scam (financial and moral) of all, because in terms of turnover the market of PAC is huge!

It is backed by EdF (which prefers to sell enough to supply a heat pump to 1 at 3kW rather than a boiler circulator at 0.1 kW!).

Here is an "anti heat pump" introduction but you will find more ideas and information on these pages dedicated to thermodynamic heating, for example:

a) Are heat pumps renewable energy? Advantages and disadvantages

b) Small comparative 3 energies realized by a Study Office

c) Geothermal energy, heat pumps, energy savings and CO2 emissions

The scam 2 number, economic and social this time, is about the abusive subsidization of PV solar systems at the expense of other solutions.

You will find an excellent reasoning on this page: comparative solar PV, thermal and insulation
(...)

[alex276]

No I do not have a windmill and no mill and not sure that the services of town hall or my neighbors see that a very good eye in my garden.

My project is totally open, so ok to proscire the PAC, but I turn to what ??? I do not want to do this work myself or to play the apprentice researcher by doing the craft, I would like to meet a serious, reliable company that share my concerns for the environment and with whom I can have a real approach to eco-citizen, today we criticize much that is proposed, certainly with good reason, on this forum, I read a lot of criticisms about what the market offers, but very few real solutions, but then what should we do: keep our facilities and continue to watch our planet wither? the boiler left by the former owner is only 2 years, I can be satisfied, but that's not what I want in my approach to green.

Alex

[Christophe]

The most econological solution is solar + wood

For wood you have the choice between logs and pellets (+ derivatives).

At the material level, according to the configuration of your house you can take either a boiler or a stove with hot water production.

The wood can be put or not in ECS coupling with the solar, if no coupling you will need an electrical resistance to get hot water in case of lack of sunshine.

The solar will completely cut the wood boiler in summer.

This is the solution we have at home and we have been "autonomous" (= 100% on solar power) since the end of March ... in the Belgian Ardennes. Here is the plan of our solar installation wood

Here is some arguments and disadvantages on wood heating

[aerialcastor]

Hello,

We have a house 125m ² habitable on total soil dating from 1975 cinderblock building lined with red brick (according to the words of some entrepreneurs it is a rather well insulated house),

It must be heating and air conditioning contractors to dare to say that.
Rparpaing = 0.19m². ° C / W
Rlame_air = 0.16m ² ° C / W (considering that the air space is not ventilated at all which will not be the case thus even worse)
Rbrique = 0.27m². ° C / W
Rsuperficielleint = 0.15m². ° C / W
Rsuperficielleext = 0.15m². ° C / W
Let Rtot = 0.92m². ° C / W
So with that we are much closer to a house not isolated than a well insulated house. The RT2005 imposes qqch as a memory 1.8 R and everyone agrees that it is very insufficient (except the heating installer apparently).

As you seem concerned about the environmental issues, you do not want to make the craft, save money, THERE IS ONLY ONE SOLUTION, it is the insulation by the outside.
The insulation is reliable it does not break down, it works summer and winter. With a thickness of 15 to 20cm your heating needs will be divided by 4 or 5 so your boiler will be amply sufficient so that no need to change a brand new boiler (2 years for a boiler is new).
If by chance you have a south facing you can consider a small veranda attached to the house (in this case there is no need to isolate the part of the south wall overlooking the veranda), which will be an excellent air preheater entering the house and a small room very nice in mid season.

That's all to say that we must first reduce its needs before looking at the bearings

[Christophe]

+ 1, we always come back to the same: we must isolate before heating and not believe the sellers ... or even some energy advisors (ademe et cie) without inquiring otherwise!

What is the point of changing the boiler to gain 20% efficiency if these yield 20% can be saved by insulating better by spending 5 at 10 times less than the boiler change? (This is an example, for example in the case of non-insulation of lost roofs, made by either).

I give again for the Xieme time the link of this comparative:
https://www.econologie.com/comparatif-en ... -3858.html

[alex276]

In fact, insulation from the outside is a solution that I have considered, but does it really correspond to my budget, what is the cost of this kind of realization and what serious companies can you recommend to me, I live in the north of 77.

Alex

[Former Oceano]

A question that I ask myself for a moment and I take the opportunity to ask it here:
It seems to me that in France you need a building permit or a declaration of works to make a facelift.
Is the outer insulation coming within this framework? Should we obtain the agreement of the town hall or its subdivision?
Can a neighbor or an administration put sticks in the wheels?

[Christophe]

In fact, insulation from the outside is a solution that I have considered, but does it really correspond to my budget, what is the cost of this kind of realization and what serious companies can you recommend to me, I live in the north of 77.

Before the insulation by the outside (the heavier, the more expensive): how are your chassis and especially your roof? How many cm in your attics lost or your rooftops if they are inhabited?

We can not recommend companies because generally they are small craftsmen who make insulation, so there are thousands of them ...

[alex276]

the questions become too technical, I have no idea of ​​the nature of my chassis and the different measures that you ask me, my roofs are actually inhabited. I launched a quote request, I'll see what comes out and if this project could stick with the zero rate loan.

To answer ex oceano, yes it is necessary to make a declaration of works near the services of town hall.

Alex