Energy-consuming house: 65m2 to heat !!

[helium]

I must improve an energy-consuming house ...
I must start with the insulation and chained with a stove or a fireplace ... but the 1er quote are for a PAC air / air
SITUATION AND DESCRIPTION CONSTRUCTION
Chanteloup the vines (yvelines - altitude 60m)
House (1960) full foot SOUTH exposure.
65 heated surface 2m60 ceilings height Building walls
+ small cellar in the basement
+ Attic 1m20 high: 10 cm of glass wool.
Wood windows (no double glazing - not very good sealing)
EXPECTED WORK (rest 4 months before moving)
electricity out of age ... and bathroom
+ outside insulation (+ windows if budget)
and heating in the wake
EXISTING INSTALLATION
electric heating (with hot water)
8 radiators type: 2 radiant in the living room 25m2 + 6 toaster
Average electrical consumption 11 500Kw per year
INSTALLATION TO COME
PAC limited possibilities no water circuit (install a heated floor seems too expensive)
and the air distribution system (too old caught in cement and poorly insulated) can not be used ...
So rather a PAC air / air + Chimney with insert (or wood stove) in relief
COST OF THE INSTALLATION PAC
1er quote received (with commercial discount -1100 €)
CAP hitachi inverter 5 outputs RAM-90QH5 4370 €
+ 2 splits hitachi inverter RAK-35QH8 1580 €
+ 2 splits hitachi inverter RAK-18NH6A 1080 €
+ Accesoires cable duct condensate ... 195 €
+ 3 lifting pumps 540 €
+ insulated heat bonds 740 €
+ various support alum ext 198 €
+ 2550 laying €
TOTAL TTC 5.5% 10771 €

[minguinhirigue]

Your house seems to be a classic pavilion. If the works touch the windows and you are less than 500 m of a historical monument, you may have to go through an archi ...

Think to check.

Otherwise, for the CAP? if you have a budget insulation consequent, you do not need it any more, unless it also does hot water. Indeed, in France, with good insulation, and an additional heating (stove or insert ...) we can spend almost all winters in the greatest comfort ... (Yes exceptional winters sometimes happens ... ).

Again, it requires a specialized building specialist to optimize installation ... The majority of technicians size ladle, which is expensive to buy, but the advantage of allowing to heat the house at 20 ° C home when it's -60 ° C outside ... Really useful in France

[Woodcutter]

I must improve an energy-consuming house ...
I must start with the insulation and chained with a stove or a fireplace ... but the 1er quote are for a PAC air / air
SITUATION AND DESCRIPTION CONSTRUCTION
Chanteloup the vines (yvelines - altitude 60m)
House (1960) full foot SOUTH exposure.
65 heated surface 2m60 ceilings height Building walls
+ small cellar in the basement
+ Attic 1m20 high: 10 cm of glass wool.
Wood windows (no double glazing - not very good sealing)
EXPECTED WORK (rest 4 months before moving)
electricity out of age ... and bathroom
+ outside insulation (+ windows if budget)
and heating in the wake
EXISTING INSTALLATION
electric heating (with hot water)
8 radiators type: 2 radiant in the living room 25m2 + 6 toaster
Average electrical consumption 11 500Kw per year
INSTALLATION TO COME
PAC limited possibilities no water circuit (install a heated floor seems too expensive)
and the air distribution system (too old caught in cement and poorly insulated) can not be used ...
So rather a PAC air / air + Chimney with insert (or wood stove) in relief
COST OF THE INSTALLATION PAC
1er quote received (with commercial discount -1100 €)
CAP hitachi inverter 5 outputs RAM-90QH5 4370 €
+ 2 splits hitachi inverter RAK-35QH8 1580 €
+ 2 splits hitachi inverter RAK-18NH6A 1080 €
+ Accesoires cable duct condensate ... 195 €
+ 3 lifting pumps 540 €
+ insulated heat bonds 740 €
+ various support alum ext 198 €
+ 2550 laying €
TOTAL TTC 5.5% 10771 €

Like so many people, you take the problem backwards ...

I give you a quote:
Attic insulation : 30 cm cellulose wadding (R = 7.9 m² ° K / W) allowing a reduction in thermal losses by the roof from about 70 to 80% compared to an LdV of 10 cm dating from the 60 years ... Gain total estimated on the total electrical conso: 30% is 3500 kWh / year Estimated cost to the ladle 1800 2000 to € € MAXI VAT Incl. on which you recover 25% of tax credit.
Changed 5 windows and a French window (at random but on 65 m² I must not be too far from the truth?) to further improve the conso 10 15% (gain on losses divided by 5 and gain on airtightness) all by significantly improving comfort and avoiding overheating.
Cost to the ladle: 4750 € TTC MAXI supplies and pose for double glazed larch (Uw = 1.5 W / m². ° K). Much less if you are not sensitive to the environmental impact of products and you take industrial PVC ...
Tax credit ditto

So we are still far from 10 770 € of your PAC!
So keep your bread racks a little longer!

Outside insulation : 90 m² of wall surface (I took the 6.5 * 10 m pif for your home plus a little margin) to insulate in natural materials 12 cm thick to obtain a resistance added R = 3 m², ° K / W. Coated or wood cladding.
Cost of about 17 000 € TTC (there it is more expensive than your PAC, for sure ... It is the problem of the external insulation)

With that, your house goes down below 80 kWh / m² / year ...
And you can have a loan Eco-PTZ since you have on the one hand a bunch of work and other parts, you go down anyway under the required performance bar.

And your bread racks can serve you for a long time, consuming only 5000 kWh per year ...

[helium]

thank you minguinhirigue and bucheron
I knew I was going to be lighted on the insulation ...
but requests for quotes come back faster for PAC ...
well I noted that we can get closer to the "passive" house:
"Roof insulation: 30 cm of cellulose wadding"
okay 30 cm it looks like it will be the norm soon
"Change of 5 windows and a French window at random"
Exactly ... have you already come ?!
"External insulation: 90 m² of wall surface to be insulated with natural materials over 12 cm. Wood plaster or cladding.
Cost of around € 17 including tax "
ok that's the quote! pose included ?!
"And you can have an Eco-PTZ loan"
so that the OPAH and the ANAH bit by bit told me that I was winning too much
(me 1100 € / month and my wife 1700 € / month ... is it too !!?)
and then I read that there was no resource ceiling ...

in short I invest in insulation, I avoid work and refills of wood ...
and I'm waiting for winter to know if I need a stove !!

[Christophe]

but requests for quotes come back faster for PAC ...

Nothing surprising to this. There is ZERO study to make an estimate of PAC: they have 4 or 5 models of PAC and following the surface and the number of room, op one puts 1 battery + X splits ... after it is EDF + the regulation which makes the ...

I bet they do not even know the coef. Insulating your house ...

[Woodcutter]

thank you minguinhirigue and bucheron
I knew I was going to be lighted on the insulation ...
but requests for quotes come back faster for PAC ...
well I noted that we can get closer to the "passive" house:
"Roof insulation: 30 cm of cellulose wadding"
okay 30 cm it looks like it will be the norm soon

Yes, for the RT2012, the level of performance to be achieved will in fact require approximately 7.5 to 8 m² ° K / W of thermal resistance on the roof to be respected.

For the passive house, another effort: it will increase a little outer insulation and treat very well the air renewal by a VMC Double Flux.

It is potentially possible, but it will be necessary to add even more 5000 € to the estimate for that.

"Change of 5 windows and a French window at random"
Exactly ... have you already come ?!

Nah, but I have thermonuclear eyes that see through the forums...
By the way, for the dimensions, I took (H * L in mm): 1200 * 1250 for the windows, 2 French opening leaves, and 2150 * 1250 for the door window, same, with threshold aluminum.

"External insulation: 90 m² of wall surface to be insulated with natural materials over 12 cm. Wood plaster or cladding.
Cost of around € 17 including tax "
ok that's the quote! pose included ?!

Oh yes anyway ! And at this price, it is windows around the best (felted wood 2 4 cm space available) and all subjections annexes (base cork walls, including blocking thermal bridge slab nose) displacement of the ducts of water and hinges of shutters.

"And you can have an Eco-PTZ loan"so that the OPAH and the ANAH bit by bit told me that I was winning too much
(me 1100 € / month and my wife 1700 € / month ... is it too !!?)
and then I read that there was no resource ceiling ...

Here, see here: http://www.developpement-durable.gouv.f ... ticle=4390

Attention, achievements in the context of an OPAH, managed by the ANAH, have nothing to do with the EcoPTZ!
The purpose of the OPAH is to bring on the rental market renovated and efficient at regulated price.

in short I invest in insulation, I avoid work and refills of wood ...
and I'm waiting for winter to know if I need a stove !!

Here ! Very good initiative !

[helium]

For the passive house, another effort: it will increase a little outer insulation and treat very well the air renewal by a VMC Double Flux.

yes the ideal passive house is rough starting from the old
but the VMC is planned ... and I continue to read your advice on the airflow coming in and out ...

... at this price, it is surrounded by the windows made the best (felted wood 2 4 cm) ... (base of the walls cork, including blocking of thermal bridge slab nose) .. ..

for external insulation. I had a beginning of "quote" on the phone ...
the guy spoke to me mostly about PTZ and tax benefits
we are far from your finishing advice and they will announce me double the price for sure!
NB: it drops for PAC air / air I had 2 other quotes
at 8000 € interesting with aeraulic, ducts and ceiling diffuser ...
and 6000 € for the same system as the 1er at 10 000 €

I have thermonuclear eyes that see through the forums...
By the way, for the dimensions, I took (H * L in mm): 1200 * 1250 for the windows, 2 French opening leaves, and 2150 * 1250

I'm going back to measure tomorrow ...

[elephant]

We must also see if the installation of individual programmers in the rooms can not earn KWh too, especially since you both work.

[helium]

Individual programmers in rooms can not earn KWh too, especially since you both work.

and we sleep together too ... it warms up !!

[elephant]

I see you're new to our forums elio, welcome: keep it up and you will become popular!