Positive energy building in Nantes

[nlc]

Today I had an appointment with society www.urbanelec.com (which distributes electric vehicles), which is housed in a breathtakingly positive energy building.

So I visited the building, really impressive

- On the roof of the solar thermal panel with very large buffer tanks for ECS + heating by radiant panels.
- On the roof of the photovoltaic solar panel for the production of electricity
- On the roof 3 wind turbines from 3m
- Next to the building 3 12kWc wind turbines
- In the technical room, a huge 12kW fuel cell, with the electrolyser and the tank that goes well to produce hydrogen with the surplus of electricity (to be able to store it ...)
- Gigantic Canadian well to preheat incoming air in winter and cool in summer
- Double skin on the south facade: double glazed walls to the outside, empty space of 1m then triple glazed walls. In winter, this part is greenhouse and the hot air is reinjected into the floors of the upper floors through "tunnels" in the floor that go to the north facade.
- Double skin on the north facade, triple glazing on the outside, empty 1m and double glazing on the inside. It's the opposite of the south facade, in the south the triple glazing is inside to insulate very hot summer air

When the work is finished, their goal is to cut the umbilical cord with EDF ...

A Nantes 7 report on this building: http://www.nantes7.fr/emission/7-co-3509/


If not for the anecdote, Mr Moutel we see in the report is the owner of the building, and it rolls in ........Tesla Roadster
Today he was not there but it is expected that I go back to do a tour with

[minguinhirigue]

I find these projects very motivating, my only downside is to cut the cord ... The link with EDF allows, even sell only the surplus, to amortize the variations of charges specific to the ENR systems on the whole. of the territory.

For those who are worried about the feasibility of such a device, know that it is already in place, and that hours-peak hours-full operation was almost as restrictive ...

The fundamental difference today is the implementation of digital driver on each individual meter, able to detect over-charge or under-load of the network, and react appropriately by varying the available power for the devices to long-term operation (water heater, floor heating, machine tools, fridge ...)

Good otherwise, bravo anyway, because the buildings with positive energy are still waiting ... There are only a few isolated examples some of which are so old that one wonders what has been done since (Training center of Herne Sodingen in 1999 by Jourda and Perraudin!).

[Christophe]

Super interesting project technologically, thank you nlc, and hats off to do it in times of "crisis" but downside ...

I find these projects interesting, my only downside is to cut the cord ....

... that's all right: I do not really see the point of making a building with positive energy without reinjection on the grid .... especially with PV or wind very variable and heavily subsidized ...

So passive I want but positive energy I do not understand ...

The search for autonomy explodes the installation costs ... (I do not even want to know the price of storage by H2 / fuel cell ...).

Is the complete installation simply economically viable over the lifetime of the equipment compared to an equivalent passive building but not an autonomous 100%?

In short I will still go for service kritikeur ...

They will still be connected to EDF the time to "start" the heat pump at H2 ...

All this should please Maloche!

I integrated the video to the site: https://www.econologie.com/abalone-batim ... -4192.html

ps: Hey Nlc, are you taking your camera for the Tesla test?

[minguinhirigue]

Hey kritikeur ... Let's not forget that the budgets of exploded facilities are mostly moving! They no longer pay taxes and EDF history tells us that this box we build EPR bo we all dream!

[Christophe]

Moue ... except that it will not be enough since the actual cost of a PV kWh is well above the market price EDF (calculated on the 25 years of life of the panels) ...

Now it would be enough for the price of PV panels to drop * to change the game, but Edf may not like it at all That's why we "like" to subsidize them ...

In short I think this project is very good technologically and scientifically but that less autonomy could have made it more profitable ... for me it's a nice demonstrator but it may be the only one for a long time! Now scientific research is priceless ... if?

* or the prices edf explode ... but that would be the revolution ...

[nlc]

The owner's goal about cord cutting is mostly to demonstrate that it is possible to be 100% stand-alone.

Passive building is not "impressive" enough, it may not mean that the building is just very energy efficient, but not that it is energy self-sufficient.

Here is the goal, that the building provides for its own needs, with a surplus storage in the form of H2 to compensate for days where there is little wind / sun.

Personally, I find even more sexy the fact that this building can be totally independent energetically speaking.

For the test of the Tesla, will I still have the camera with me then, because I do not know when they will tell me to pass ...

[nlc]

I forgot, since we are talking about cost, the price of the building is 4.3M € ...

[Christophe]

Price compare to a classic building or better HQE similar.

In the doc we hear + 35% and 400 € / m² (excluding storage I think) ... must do the math but I would rather be your opinion: it is a demonstrator for the future more than a financially profitable building!

The major problem with the search for energy autonomy are the periods (short but still) when the climatic conditions are "extreme" (both cold and hot) ...

For example now? How was it when you went there? There's no sun there ... even with big buffers ...

[nlc]

it is the same principle as some solar hot water tank, there is an electric supplement. But despite the low sun when I was there, it was good in the corridor of the south face between the walls double and triple glazing.

[nlc]

An article west france:
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 4n37MN.pdf
http://abalone-interim.net/data/file/Re ... 1Nov09.pdf