Spring arrester: need for clarification

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Olivier22
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Spring arrester: need for clarification




by Olivier22 » 23/06/22, 02:02

Hi
I want to install water hammer arrestors on my sanitary installation.
I specify that my goal is not silence, but above all the protection of the piping, which is fragile by construction (ten-year guarantee exceeded, now you have to deal with it)

I have roughly identified the 3 types:
- membrane tires, which are huge and expensive but durable and reinflatable without difficulty;
- "simple" tires which are air chambers without separation, quite bulky and which have to be bled from time to time;
-And those with piston+spring: the least expensive and the most compact.

Single tires are my preference, but I'm afraid I don't have enough room to put them where I want; and then, who knows why, they are much more expensive than their spring counterparts.

These are also the most common. But they ask me several questions:
1- Are they as efficient as tires? (piston inertia, friction: so many characteristics that do not favor the absorption of the wave, a priori)

2- How can they be purged, since the upper part is closed?
It seems utopian to me to believe that water will never infiltrate above the piston... Am I wrong?

Thank you for your clarifications.
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Re: Spring arrester: need clarification




by phil59 » 23/06/22, 09:03

Hello,
Why flimsy?
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Re: Spring arrester: need clarification




by Christophe » 23/06/22, 09:17

I installed this model under my sink for more than 12 years, no worries...It's the only installation and it works very well!

It is on the cold water inlet and it also works with hot water (but this must depend on the hydraulic installations: a possible valve will cancel the ram effect)

0 maintenance, 0 purging necessary... only happiness!

anti_belier_hydraulique.jpg
anti_belier_hydraulique.jpg (128.8 KiB) Viewed 572 times


I think it's a spring ... and I also believe that we should not put several (resonance?)

You can use a small expansion tank it seems to me...but it has to be suitable for drinking water...
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Re: Spring arrester: need clarification




by Christophe » 23/06/22, 09:20

It is indeed a spring: https://www.caleffi.com/france/fr/catal ... ier-525040

And the note is well done: https://www.caleffi.com/sites/default/f ... 0_09fr.pdf

To answer your 2nd question, there is a double seal:

Screenshot 2022-06-23 at 09-19-35 01020_FR - 01020_09fr.pdf.png
Screenshot 2022-06-23 at 09-19-35 01020_FR - 01020_09fr.pdf.png (40.92 KiB) Accessed 572 times


However, this model has one restriction:

Begins to operate at: 3 bar

Not everyone has 3 bars on tap...they would have done better to put 1.5 to 2 bars...

Too bad we can't tare the spring...
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Re: Spring arrester: need clarification




by Ahmed » 23/06/22, 14:55

On an installation at, say, 2 bars, the "ram" phenomenon will cause a strong (and brief) overpressure which will be compensated by this type of device. If this is not the case and the overpressure is only moderate (for example less than 3 bars!), there is no need for such equipment, especially since the pipes generally withstand these surges due to the deformations which are distributed over the whole and it is rather the resulting noise which inconveniences the occupants....
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Re: Spring arrester: need clarification




by sicetaitsimple » 23/06/22, 15:34

Ahmed wrote:On an installation at, say, 2 bars, the "ram" phenomenon will cause a strong (and brief) overpressure which will be compensated by this type of device. If this is not the case and the overpressure is only moderate (for example less than 3 bars!), there is no need for such equipment, especially since the pipes generally withstand these surges due to the deformations which are distributed over the whole and it is rather the resulting noise which inconveniences the occupants....


Ahmed, you who generally write so well, I'm going to make the same remark to you as to the dozens of young engineers I've seen during my relatively long career.
We do not write 2 (or 3) bars, we write 2 (or 3) bars. Just as we write 2 or 3 m, if it is a length.
On the other hand, you can write two or three bars.
Well yes, the bar symbol is bar. And the symbol for "meter" is "m".

Basically, I don't see why deprive yourself of an accessory aimed at minimizing these water hammers if the installation is such that they are important. It can be quite destructive in the long term.
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Re: Spring arrester: need clarification




by Macro » 23/06/22, 15:35

Personally, I installed a pressure limiter...It significantly reduces water consumption (for showers and other intermittent uses) by reducing the flow rate at the taps...And above all...No more leaks on these fucking water heater safety groups...but good water hammer...Frankly working in industry with anti bellier of all kinds (bladder, spring piston, gas piston)...I can guarantee you that it necessarily falls broke down after "some time" : Cheesy:
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Re: Spring arrester: need clarification




by phil59 » 23/06/22, 15:48

Macro wrote:
"of a certain time" : Cheesy:



Ahhhhhhhhhhh, it's like the barrel of the cannon.... : Lol: : Arrow:
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Re: Spring arrester: need clarification




by Ahmed » 23/06/22, 16:08

Spelling is an uncertain "science" in French and I don't know anyone who never makes mistakes. Moreover, it is not so serious as long as the structure of the sentences remains correct, the syntax acceptable and the meaning unequivocal...
I don't quite understand the difference you make, oh* It was simple, between the writing of the two expressions: "2 or 3 bar"And"two or three bars", can you enlighten me?
* This invocation is in no way ironic... 8)

A pressure limiter is very sensible depending on the circumstances. As for the safety groups, they are designed to evacuate the volume of water which expands each time a heating cycle occurs and as the valve of the said group is in the low position, the limestone is deposited "after a certain time" on the seat causing a small permanent leak. The real solution is to insert a small buffer tank which will absorb excess volumes during heating to redistribute them during racking.
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Re: Spring arrester: need clarification




by phil59 » 23/06/22, 17:21

I don't worry about that anymore....

kw is incorrect, it's kW with a capital W because there was a Mr Watt...

I happily confuse kW and kWh, but in the context it is understandable, but purists do not like ...

I work in a hypermarket, and when I was on duty, I had the weights and measures passed...

Of course, verification of all the scales, no worries, we were up to date in our thumbnails, and his standard kg displayed 1 kg on all the scales...

Electronic labels that give a point instead of the comma, but for the guy we displayed more expensive than what we actually sold...

And a poster in fruits and vegetables...

The department head wrote:

€1 per kilo of "**********".

I don't think a customer would have understood....

The guy exploded, reminding me that kilo was not a unit of measurement in itself, and that it should be written kilogram...
And at the end, he tells me, that he wants all the weights to be expressed in kilograms..

Me who thought that the kg was a unit of mass, and not of weight....

So .... everyone can be wrong, as long as in the context it is quite understandable ...
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