Trigeneration with frying oil

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
beaver faithful
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Registration: 23/10/13, 22:58




by beaver faithful » 21/11/13, 19:27

electronono27 wrote:Hello
for the cooling system of your engine you should use a calorsta de lada
because it has a return
cold engine the circuit is from the engine to the water pump then the calorstat closed then the engine return

hot engine the circuit is from the engine to the water pump then the calorstat open then the tank then the engine return

in intermediate the calorstat regulates the engine temperature as close as possible to the optimal

but was I clear in my explanations ??
see you
no no : Lol:


Hi nono,
I admit that I did not understand your explanation well but it is also because I have not yet examined the way in which the calorstat works on the current circuit.
From what you just told me I deduce that I will have to look at Lada's side when I am there and I will then come back to you.
In the meantime if you have the possibility of publishing a sketch which explains the difference between the two solutions I am interested.
Thanks again !

Today I laid bare the small boiler that will replace the exhaust:
Image
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 21/11/13, 21:55

it's not just lada ... it's only the very old engine which had a calorstat that almost completely blocked when it was cold and opened when it was hot

on all the current car it is in 2 way: when it is cold all the flow of the pump turns in circle in the engine without passing by the radiator: the circulation at full flow in the engine equalizes the temperature ... and when it is hot the calorstat heats of circuit and makes pass the flow in the radiator

I see this 2-way system on the tractor too, even quite old

it is necessary to keep the calorstat to let the engine temperature rise to its preferred temperature, especially if there is a huge tank of water to be heated: if the circuit was direct to the tank from the start the engine would run too long too cold

with the calorstat the temperature of the engine rises, then when it is hot enough it sends to the radiator or to the tank just the flow it takes to stay at the right temperature
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beaver faithful
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by beaver faithful » 21/11/13, 22:39

@chatelot:
Totally agree with your advice.
It is out of the question for me to go outside the operating temperature specifications recommended by the engine manufacturer.
But I remain open to any suggestion allowing me to modify certain installations without derogating from certain fundamental rules of engine operation.
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 21/11/13, 23:33

your engine looks serious enough: it certainly already has the right calorstat and the right pump: all that remains is to replace the radiator with the tank to be heated
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jonule
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by jonule » 22/11/13, 09:25

+ 1 with Chatelot16, keep the original water pump provided pile pile for engine cooling, mechanically driven it will consume less than an electric by mechanical / electric conversion with zero efficiency (10% to 30%).

ditto your original calorstat is intended to warm the engine then cool it, but it is true that you will have to observe this point: that the calorstat opens sufficiently in cooling to heat your tanks.
because it is provided for this: warm the cold engine, then once hot it must cool ... but not + that the set temperature t ° C of the calorstat, otherwise it closes and the engine warms up ... if that oscillates too much you will have to increase the engine speed so that it really heats your tanks.
normal operation would be to immerse the engine radiator in a tank; there you cool "too much" I just imagine ...
you will watch that when the book is on the way,
in any case, a thousand congratulations on this project that many of us dream of doing.

I also recommend classic coolant (LDR) for your tanks, between 25% and 50% to see, anyway even in case of micro-leak you will not drink hot water reassure you, and in case hot shower you will quickly smell the smell of LDR.

by the way: what are you going to do with electricity? on demand ?
the group starts alone according to the demand for electricity?

good luck and keep you posted!
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beaver faithful
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by beaver faithful » 22/11/13, 15:08

Thank you Jonule for your interest in my project.
I am all the more flattered that you are a reference for me.
Indeed, I have been following for a long time and with the greatest interest the many sections of your personal site.

I will not go into detail about the modifications that I will make right away because I think that they will occur naturally when I am faced with the case to be resolved.

I respond to the use I intend to make of my installation:

- I subscribe to the EDF Tempo tariff and it is therefore in my interest to operate in complete self-sufficiency on the 22 red days and especially during peak hours, ie from 6 am to 22 pm
- I noticed that these red days are allocated by EDF during very cold periods and generally without sun and often for 5 days in a row
This will therefore be the period and the hours during which I would run my group.
I did not plan in the immediate future of automatic start because on the one hand I am at home all day and on the other hand I have to make an automatic changeover diesel / oil at the start and at the stop.
So for the moment it will be a manual and daily start with a manual inversion of the sources.

What am I going to do with the electricity?
- first substitute the normal consumption of red days
- then, probably, supply an electric boiler, which I already have in stock, to heat my water reserve a little faster with a load shedding means if another electrical need is a priority.
Indeed the stored hot water will be used to power the heated floor of my house and a future greenhouse.

Once all this has been experienced, it is not excluded that I want to carry out more and more automated sequences.
But before I would measure all the energy transfers made to know what it is better to favor.

Oh, I forgot: originally I also planned to heat my tanks with 14m2 of thermal solar panels.
But I shifted this installation a little because it is clear that solar is not very effective in my region during red days.
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electronono27
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by electronono27 » 23/11/13, 01:58

Hello
for the 2-way calorstat it's ok
for jonule a generator set running at constant speed 1500 turns to produce 50 hertz (number of generator poles)
to produce heat with your engine and get a good performance with your group it must be operated at 75% load or more up to 100%
for your exhaust boiler you should turn it down to avoid losses
remember to take fresh air outside to supply your air filter
this will avoid putting your room in depression
your engine sucks large amounts of air
see you
no no :P
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beaver faithful
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by beaver faithful » 23/11/13, 09:19

Nono wrote:
"for your muffler boiler you should cut it down to avoid losses"

It was to check her condition and then I will dress her even more warmly because she was originally very lightly dressed :D

An outside air intake is provided for the supply of fresh air. This plug will not be directly connected to the group's filter so as to be able to renew all the air in the "bunker", remove any excess calories that may have accumulated in the enclosure and also the burnt gases in the event of an accidental leak from the exhaust.
I also plan to install a sound trap between the fresh air intake and its arrival on the bunker.

Regarding the load, the interest of connecting the generator to the electric boiler with a load shedding system of this load seems to me to be also the solution allowing to permanently ensure a load close to the nominal power and the production of heat. that goes with.

By operating only during peak hours on red days, a quick calculation had indicated to me that I should be able to accumulate enough hot water to live on this energy reserve overnight.

Concerning the risks of corrosion I specify that my tanks as well as the exchangers in corrugated tubes with their fixing are entirely in stainless steel (old milk tanks, then champagne tanks!)
In addition, the connections with the engine and the boiler will be made of flexible hose type hose with an inside diameter of 1 ".
I have not yet acquired this tube so if you have a type of tube to suggest to me at a reasonable price I am interested.
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dede2002
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by dede2002 » 23/11/13, 11:10

Hello,

In this case it is important that the thermostat (2-way) closes the inlet and not the engine outlet.

Otherwise by letting the water come out at 80 ° the engine will fill with cold water and risk being damaged very quickly!

Another advantage regarding antifreeze in the circuit is the increase in the boiling point.

Have a good day :D
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 23/11/13, 15:18

this is precisely the advantage of the 2-way thermostat when it starts to open the way to the radiator (or the tank) the closed-circuit way in the engine is still open, so the small flow of cold water and diluted in the big flow of hot water running in circles: no thermal shock! and if it gets too cold the thermostat closes the radiator circuit

it is only when the tank is sufficiently hot that the thermostat will completely close the circuit in round to pass all the flow in the radiator circuit
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