Trigeneration with frying oil

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
beaver faithful
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by beaver faithful » 12/11/13, 22:13

Macro wrote:The radiator must be removed and replaced by a water-tubular water exchanger. in one part of the exchanger you will pass the LDR in the other you will circulate water to be heated Attention it will be necessary that this water has a temperature lower than that of your LDR if the delta between the cooling water and lDR is important you will be surprised at the size of the exchanger required if the delta is 20 ° ... Well it will take a fairly substantial ...


Excuse me but I don't see the point of going through an exchanger ???
Why not pass the water from the tanks directly into the engine block knowing that it is a circuit or this water will turn in a loop and that I keep the engine calorstat so as not to drop below the operating temperature (77 ° VS)?
In addition all my premises are frost-free so no need for antifreeze.
My assembly is quite complicated like that so if I can avoid an exchanger ....

@flytox
If I remove the original water pump it will be to replace it with a circulation pump supplied by the generator and controlled by a judicious delta T socket.
I do not intend to settle for a simple thermosiphon for the same reasons that you mentioned.
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by Flytox » 12/11/13, 22:34

fidele beaver wrote:Excuse me but I don't see the point of going through an exchanger ???
Why not pass the water from the tanks directly into the engine block knowing that it is a circuit or this water will turn in a loop and that I keep the engine calorstat so as not to drop below the operating temperature (77 ° VS)?
In addition all my premises are frost-free so no need for antifreeze.
My assembly is quite complicated like that so if I can avoid an exchanger ....


If you are monitoring your water temperature effectively, you can try .... I'm not sure the calorstat likes to work intermittently for a long time. Usually this opens and closes completely in a relatively narrow temperature range and there you risk feeding it with water a little too far from its opening temperature. It will open and close all the time instead of finding an equilibrium position between open.

Usually with antifreeze you have a whole bunch of corrosion inhibitors. If you do not put it you will eat your cylinder head / water pump / radiator etc depending on the construction material by corrosion in a few months or years.
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 12/11/13, 22:53

no need for an exchanger: water from a central heating can flow directly into the engine

we put an exchanger in the marine engine to cool with sea water full of salt ... it allows non-corrosive water to circulate in the engine

if there is any doubt about the quality of the water in the central heating, it is possible to add a little antifreeze, even if it never freezes, but just to take advantage of the anti-corrosion additives

still I am wary, I'm not sure you all that there is anti corrosion additive in the low-end antifreeze

in other cases we put a heat exchanger between the engine and the central heating circuit because the heating circuit is at high pressure, and we don't want to subject the engine to this pressure with its rubber hoses

that will be another question to solve: what simple anti-corrosion additive to add to a heating circuit when you don't need antifreeze
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by beaver faithful » 12/11/13, 23:12

It is clear that I still do not know how I am going to neutralize a volume of 5300 liters of water at a reasonable cost.
Measure the pH and neutralize it?
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by chatelot16 » 12/11/13, 23:57

do not put a product to precisely dose to neutralize
for example caustic soda, that if we put too much it eats aluminum parts

rather, you need a product that you can safely put in excess, for example sodium carbonate (soda), you can put as much as you want without danger, neither for the hands nor for the aluminum. .but I am not convinced that it is a good anti corrosion, it is in any case an anti acid

it's a bit the same problem as anti-mud products with underfloor heating: plastic pipes in the ground let oxygen enter the water, that's not what makes the mud directly, but the oxygen boffe from the scrap of the boiler and makes the mud

a good anti-corrosion additive avoids this problem
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by Macro » 13/11/13, 08:34

I strongly advise against cooling with water directly in your engine for several reasons:
- its limestone content which will inevitably settle around the hot spots in the cylinder head
-Its lack of temperature stability it will boil at the hottest places on your engine relatively easily especially if it is not maintained under a slight pressure keeping your reserves at 0.1Bar (minimum) could be a problem
At my taf we had fire groups (403 peugeot petrol engine) cooled like that the cylinder heads kept jumping out of the day or we passed them in classic cooling it was finished ..
At what temperature do you heat your storage tanks ??? I guess you don't want to climb high if you want your solar panels to be useful.
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by beaver faithful » 13/11/13, 10:15

@macro
I intended to use rainwater from my reserve to fill my tanks and it is therefore rather the acidity of the latter that I will have to neutralize a little. I would make a measurement on the latter's pH meter to see what it looks like.

In addition, my tanks have a water height of about 1,5 m which will make a pressure of 0,1 bar at the highest point of the engine given the respective position of the different elements.
The engine manual tells me that the opening pressure of the radiator cap valve in the current cooling system is 0,7 bar, so I think I would not be too far from the operating range.

A quick calculation makes me think that the temperature of the water in my tanks will reach a maximum of 60 ° at the end of the day and when the group has been operating during the day for ten hours (red period of the Tempo tariff).
At night I plan to stop the group and send the calories from the tanks via the heat exchanger in the underfloor heating, safety first of all!

The tank insulation advances slowly:
Image
The blue per pipe is for the automatic filling of rainwater via a float valve.

Here, in its juice, the oil boiler which will serve as my exhaust exchanger:

Image
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Macro
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by Macro » 13/11/13, 10:32

Acid rainwater .... The mine is rather basic ... despite being in a buried plastic tank ...

Another phenomenon when we have different metals in which water circulates .... Oxidation reduction and electrolysis (especially in a jacketed motor) I will appear stubborn but either you put a water water exchanger or you immerse the radiator of your engine in one of your tanks ... But leave the LDR of your magnificent engine separated from your broth ...
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by chatelot16 » 13/11/13, 11:42

pure water has a pH which varies very strongly at the slightest trace of acid: therefore the C02 of the air is enough to make an acid ph .... by heating the CO2 leaves

if macro finds its basic rainwater, it can be green, algae and company: there is no longer the problem of too pure water

the disadvantage of too pure water like distilled water, is that the slightest trace of acid wreaks havoc on corrosion: nothing but the CO2 in the air plays on acid

with sodium carbonate in water, any acid is consumed by this sodium carbonate ... the ph only moves if we put more acid than there is sodium carbonate

even if I am not sure that sodium carbonate is the best anti corrosion, it is necessarily better than to put nothing

and for those who are really stingy there is potassium carbonate, exactly equivalent, which is quite simply the most soluble product of wood ash: it is therefore enough to pass hot water through wood ash , and filter to keep only what is well dissolved to have fairly pure potash

normally it makes ordinary potash therefore potassium carbonate ... in certain cases of wood fires at high temperature it could make a little caustic potash: potassium hydroxide, dangerous for aluminum

normally the little potassium hydroxide in the fine ash quickly transforms into potassium carbonate with the CO2 in the air ... just measure the ph to verify that it is not too basic
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electronono27
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by electronono27 » 21/11/13, 17:43

Hello
for the cooling system of your engine you should use a calorsta de lada
because it has a return
cold engine the circuit is from the engine to the water pump then the calorstat closed then the engine return

hot engine the circuit is from the engine to the water pump then the calorstat open then the tank then the engine return

in intermediate the calorstat regulates the engine temperature as close as possible to the optimal

but was I clear in my explanations ??
see you
no no : Lol:
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