The magnets ...

[crispus]

1) induction X speed product: it really reminds me of the things I saw on the pantonizers sites, about ionization, gas speed, magnetized rod or not. But where do you get this principle from?

2) by tweaking the alternator a bit we can have all the alternative we want, right?

I refer you to the reading of my hypothesis where I explored the electrodynamic forces (called Lorentz).

See page 12 for the most plausible explanation of the effect of a magnet on the ionization of molecules.

For the alternator, the idea is worth exploring ...

For Christophe, Bob_Isat, Andre and others indignant (rightly!), I promise to restore order in pages 8 and 9. Patience ...

[elephant]

Thank you Crispus for responding so quickly.
Sorry, but when we follow several forums at the same time, we end up getting lost in it. Myself, I often the impression that certain interlocutors (I am not targeting anyone at all) do not take my interventions into account.
Subsidiary question (proof of what I say): page 12 of which forum ?
The forums, it's very interesting and very cheerful, but often interesting things are dissolved in the presentation: the limits of the technique. (In absolute terms, the ideal would be to be able to have access to a compacted form of the forum, but this is another story as Kipling would say)

[Other]

Hello

For Christophe, Bob_Isat, Andre and others indignant (rightly!), I promise to restore order in pages 8 and 9. Patience ...

Very far from being indignant, because I have tried montages and the results are meager, It is far from 25% as some seller say,
but if you explained to us which assembly you have it will not be long that I will try, and on many engines, I have a big one who drinks like a calf .. On him it will be easy to check if there is a small difference.
If you tell me two simple magnets stuck face to face on the fuel pipe, that I tried it, on the big horse! nothing..
But as it seems it is not because I have not had results that others do not succeed ..
For the frequency of an alternator it is between 400 and 500 Hz depending on the engine speed, I made an output on the winding of my alternator for different uses. The induction of an electromagnet especially in vibrating mode at this frequency is lower, the coil will not have many turns at this frequency. To have the full magnetic field even in DC there is a time for induction is established, the large electromagnets in the industry, this time is counted in seconds! We arrive with an electromagnet to raise a certain number of sheets on a stack, just to play on the time that we put the current in the electromagnet ...
keep us informed in your alternative montage.

But tell us about your current operational setup that interests me. I am curious by nature and never close to scientific things ..

Andre

[bolt]

Christophe, you frighten us with your statement on the behavior of the pantone on the bench, but apart from you, who made extensive tests on the bench in French-speaking pants (copyright elephant ), with substantial loads (like 30-40 kW?)

Uh ...
https://www.econologie.com/forums/public2/essaiconsojd4255.xls

Hello,

The engine mounted on the bench is a 2L petrol engine with carburetor, it is an engine that was mounted on the BX or the 405.

We have so far tested an operating point:

1530 rpm
57 Nm
300 mL of gasoline consumed in 3 min 10s whether with or without the magnets.

which gives us an output power of 9,1 kW, an input power of 55,3 kW, and an efficiency for this operating point of 16,5%.

It is normal to have such a low efficiency, since the motor has been used at a rotation frequency lower than its maximum efficiency speed. (about 3000-3500 rpm)

300 ml / 190 seconds = 5,684 L / hour for 9.1 kw

i.e. 5,684 / 9,1 = 0,625 L / kw.h of specific consumption

If the optimal efficiency of a petrol engine is 25% with a specific consumption of 0,3 L / kw.h (petrol I don't know too much, in diesel we are happy with 0,25 L / kw.h)

Or 25% x (0,3 / 0,625) = 12% energy efficiency of the gasoline used

REMINDER: for the best specific consumption it is better:
1) maximum engine load

2) speed close to the maximum torque

Or, for a car (because generally not possible with an overpowered car):
Regardless of the traction power requirements of the moment, the engine must be run as slowly as possible, to get as close as possible to full load (this is preponderant at the speed close to the maximum torque)
So always put the speed as high as possible (of course according to the needs of the moment)

see the specific consumption for different diets and at different charges on the link above

(12 liters per hour without load at maximum speed, this does not appeal to you) (without load = only dung horses)

bolt

[Other]

Hello

2) speed close to the maximum torque

Exactly like this that we adapt the cruise regime on aircraft engines. as a general rule when I change the pitch of the propeller, or when I install a larger one, I attach the solid plane to the ground and I rinse the engine at the bottom, the RPM indicated will serve me for the RPM of cruising, it is the maximum torque regime. because the plane stopped the propeller pumps all the air it is capable of, in flight it decreases the load, because the plane advances.
The economic regime corresponds to a motor loaded at its maximum torque.

Under speed and under low load, the engine forces too much to suck (butterfly slightly open) and it does not fill the cylinder well, its compression pressure is lower and it does not support lean mixing and normally we should increase the advance and its compression ratio to compensate ..

in under regime and very heavy load it begins to have too much mechanical friction and heat loss by walls in the cylinder head and cylinder, the engine heats up, at this level we should decrease the advance, the filling is done to the maximum the engine is more tolerant of the lean mixture, but more likely to
self-ignition if the fuel is a little limited for engine.

At full speed and (adjusted load) for this speed, you get the most out of the engine, but at the cost of high consumption, the filling of the cylinders no longer follows the speed of rotation, the torque decreases, the power curve begins to flatten and the power on these last laps is not so exploitable on an airplane with a propeller with fixed pitch. (not more on a car because of gearbox reports.)

I draw his observations on the different tests I do on the Lycoming and Continental engines of airplanes, although these are rustic and slow engines with high torque, the principle does not differ much on gasoline engines, just the revs and curves of power and torque which varies according to the design of the engine.

The only thing people relish is the maximum engine power, they forget to watch the torque.
It is necessary to have a power available on a broad range of mode, not to have all the power in high mode and almost nothing in the intermediate mode, the vehicle with this pointed engine is unpleasant to operate, it takes all a gearbox with many reports . It is this kind of engine that makes me sweat when it comes time to adapt a propeller for this plane.


Andre

[crispus]

Subsidiary question (proof of what I say): page 12 of which forum ?

I was not talking about a forum, but from page 12 of the pdf document in "hypothesis" link above:
http://vortex.francophone.free.fr/docum ... vortex.pdf
Ditto for pages 8 and 9 (the "spiral" which illustrates the tightening of the turns but does not correspond to reality)

if you explain to us what editing you have do it won't be long i will try

For now not much, I just ran the risk of trusting those who say they have had results. So I tried to understand the origin of the effect of the magnets on the fuel.
You even managed to make me doubt the -7,5% on my temporary mounting to the adhesive - melted tried on 1 full last year.
I just tried again a montage in addition to the AVEC a few days ago:



The ions of opposite sign move away as long as they are in motion, but can recombine:
- in case of flow stop,
- by contact via the metal walls.

Your assembly (which I admire) of the crushed copper tube surrounded by magnets considerably increases the induction, but on the other hand I fear that it favors the recombination of ions into neutral molecules by conduction ... Perhaps should be he varnish the inside of the tube to insulate the walls?

For my part, I slightly "crushed" the hose to gain a few% of induction.
Too early to conclude, but an experimenter on Xantia (same engine as my 806) says to have reached -25% against -20% for AVEC alone.

On my side on 3 full I got -12 to -18% for the AVEC without magnets.

[elephant]

André, I do not ask if in your magnet assembly, the fuel is really crossed by an intense magnetic field, I have the impression that your magnetic field short-circuits in circles, that it is your small magnet which is in the air gap of the U-shaped magnet.
I think making Crispus is more effective.

[iota]

Hi guys,

I will mount the following system:

2 half PVC tubes diameter 30mm with a length of about 15cm (length available on the fuel inlet hose before injection)

12 "normal" magnets bought in supermarkets (found in my brothel) from which I removed the plastic coating.

The magnets are placed 6 dimensions to dimensions in each half tube and oriented in the same direction.
They are therefore in line and face to face and parallel.

I think firstly to place the opposite magnets in the direction where they "attract" the opposite half shell ...

For the moment a half tube has the magnets glued to neoprene, the other half tube will have the magnets glued to the silicone sealant in order to remove them later and reverse them.

These small magnets seem powerful enough for their size and the hose is made of plastic-rubber-with-nuts, I think there will be no significant obstacle to the magnetic fields.

The car is a toyota corolla 1.6 petrol of 92, it has 275000km.

photos as soon as it is dry ...

[Other]

Hello

Your assembly (which I admire) of the crushed copper tube surrounded by magnets considerably increases the induction, but on the other hand I fear that it favors the recombination of ions into neutral molecules by conduction ... Perhaps should be he varnish the inside of the tube to insulate the walls

You mark a good point which I had not thought of! I have always used non-magnetic copper and stainless steel conduit, the reason I wanted to reduce the air gap to a minimum (magnetic law), but I had not thought of using an insulating conduit, such as hose lines its relatively thick it did not lend itself well to this assembly, but I will find the right material to redo tests and verify this theory (This is the only way to verify, not always to understand, but to improve the system and later understand)

André, I do not ask if in your magnet assembly, the fuel is really crossed by an intense magnetic field, I have the impression that your magnetic field short-circuits in circles, that it is your small magnet which is in the air gap of the U-shaped magnet.
I think making Crispus is more efficient

.

For a magnetic circuit more perfect than that it would have to be the shape like the loudspeakers, or the big electro magnet cylindrical, but the circuit in M ​​closed circuit is of use in all the transformers with high efficiency without leakage. the way I did it is the maximum field which crosses between the magnets all the magnetic leaks are channeled by the external branches in the center branch and focus in the air gap.

Andre

[bolt]

It is necessary to have a power available on a broad range of mode, not to have all the power in high mode and almost nothing in the intermediate mode, the vehicle with this pointed engine is unpleasant to operate, it takes all a gearbox with many reports . It is this kind of engine that makes me sweat when it comes time to adapt a propeller for this plane.

good evening André, what you say is true for practical use,

but each time an engine is studied to have a huge reserve of torque (and here I agree, it is more pleasant to use), it is always more greedy at high revs than an engine with low rise in torque

from the consumption point of view, on an engine with a large reserve of torque, it becomes essential to ignore the high speed and be satisfied with it as if it were a slow engine

easy to understand on this table:


in this table we can clearly guess on the one hand the influence of the regime of use at work on the specific consumption: especially not to go above the regime of maximum torque

and on the other hand, the influence of the load for a given regime:
have the weakest possible engine to be most often at full load


engines with sophisticated computers (advance ... etc.) can undoubtedly better combine large torque reserve and reasonable specific consumption at high speed

For the magnets to be effective, the fuel flow must be high.

You probably mean "speed" fuel

So if we make a tiny gap (rather between magnets) a small flow could do the trick
Otherwise, (but it takes energy) add a sweeping pump in parallel series with the magnetic pipe end: the fuel would then pass very quickly and also several times in the magnets before leaving for combustion.

bolt