Securing on-board electrolysis

[Misterloxo]

Given the success of the subject on improved electrolysis, I wanted to discuss here the measures and devices for securing on-board electrolysis:

- bubbler
- flame blocker ...

Notice to the most experienced in this area ...

[nlc]

Well the blow of the bubbler is not bad, it avoids any return to the electrolysis chamber.

But to do even better, I believe that in the electrolysis chamber there must be an air vent. Like this, when the engine sucks (through the bubbler), it sucks not only 2H2 O2, but a mixture of 2H2 O2 + air which would form in the combustion chamber. And this mixture is much less dangerous because it is no longer as explosive as pure 2H2 O2. In case of flashback, no explosion.

Then safety level you need a system that cuts the generation of gas if the engine does not run.

[gegyx]

Posted on: Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:38 by Gegyx

The simplest is to leave the gas mixture that has just formed, in the same ideal proportions for the recomposition of water (stoichiometric mixture); the energy will be maximum (and may be more than expected, because there would not be only pure H2 and O2). Care must be taken in the construction, for corrosion and welding, pressure and temperature sensors to cut the current, simple level sensors to re-supply water and a valve; by doubling the security, there is a greater risk ...
As an essential precaution, the recovered mixture must be passed over the plates, through one or even two water filters (better barrier to stop a possible flashback), before use.
Gas is produced on demand, at very slight pressure, and is used immediately. Provide waterproof inspection hatch to check and clean the tank, check the water level in the filters, after moderate use.

[nlc]

It is not necessary to keep the stoichiometric mixture since the engine will not be able to be fueled only with this gas (not enough flow). So the engine will necessarily swallow air in addition to the gas, and the proportions will no longer be stoichiometric anyway.

[Misterloxo]

Posted on: Thu 01 Dec 2005 01:38 by Gegyx
Care must be taken in the construction, for corrosion and welding, pressure and temperature sensors to cut the current, simple level sensors to re-supply water and a valve; by doubling the security, there is a greater risk ...

Hi gegyx!

Do you have references for such sensors?

[Misterloxo]

Here for example, the safety bubbler produced by Tero (beautiful work):





The question I ask myself is if there is not a risk that the motor sucks too hard and thus sucks water?

[gegyx]

Hello,
no, I don't have a specific reference to provide. What I put forward is only my opinion, formed by my logic, my taste for practice, and my diverse "knowledge", due to a mind curious about all techniques and innovations.
In the box, there is nothing transcendent: it is obvious that the mixture is dangerous . Any possibility of leakage or overproduction must be eliminated; by taking care of the construction, by favoring disassembly for inspection visits, and by multiplying the various safety measures which block production as soon as there is an anomaly.
I had visited on the Internet the few merchants of Brown gas welding equipment in the world, North America, Australia, China, Italy ... And see if we could draw some construction ideas. The electrolysis tank of the latest industrial machines seems to fit in a horizontal cylinder (tube safer than a box in the event of an explosion, I think, but perhaps a new process). The original machine is a rectangular tank. The partners separated and continued research and construction along divergent paths. The Chinese have copied everything with a standard basic machine, subject to production “vagaries”, since everything is simplified there. An example, like that they do not bother with superfluous electronics, the electrolyte level is managed by 2 electrodes dipping in the soup, at 2 levels (high and low). The innovation of the machines being to do without direct current, to avoid a large transformer, and a fan consuming electricity. The water firebreak, being the simplest and safest solution. If you fear a rise in water, you can add a sensor to stop any outing.
The lattice of your image (dishwashing pad) is put in your pvc tube, deployed throughout the volume?
This is I think the principle, to mitigate a rapid expansion of gases and the flashback; it must be used in explosive containers; this is what the engineers had added to the Concorde tanks, following the accident, and by lining the inside wall with shock absorber to attenuate a shock wave coming from the outside.
PS: I am surprised by the small size of the Tero electrodes: ~ 3,5 x 10 cm… Would that be enough? NLC seeks in its performance tests, to put the largest surface for this same current!

[Misterloxo]

The lattice of your image (dishwashing pad) is put in your pvc tube, deployed throughout the volume?
This is, I think, the principle, to attenuate a rapid extension of the gases and the flashback; it must be used in explosive containers;

Yes. That's quite right !

PS: I am surprised by the small size of the Tero electrodes: ~ 3,5 x 10 cm… Would that be enough? NLC seeks in its performance tests, to put the largest surface for this same current!

Well, its electrodes are 160x200x0,8 mm. To have the active surface, remove 12 mm of gasket all around and take into account that the water level is about 25 mm lower than the top of the cells.

So (160 - 2x12 - 25) x (200 - 2x12) = 111 x 176 = 19 mm² 536, 195 cm²