Prototype Chambrin in realization of SuperCarburateur

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
Sdc77
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by Sdc77 » 29/01/07, 16:36

my first reaction when we started working on the plans was the same as yours: the surface! As we work at 2, my friend took a sheet of paper that he rolled to get 40mm in diameter and then flattened it to 5mm to finally get about 6cm long. So he reasoned on the perimeter and not on the surface. What we would need if we reasoned on the surface is a sheet about 25cm high :?
Being garageot he certified to me that even if the gases were slowed down, the engine would turn even qd. Anyway it is only a prototype.

And indeed we have sealing problems, but if we get something, the ideal would be to start from a solid mass of aluminum or steel and to cut the spiral digitally to have only one joint under the cover. But it's worth pennies and we don't have pennies : Lol:

In his 2nd patent, Chambrin made fresh air between the reactor and the engine intake.
On this mill we have the vacuum of the brake servo and a recirculation of exhaust gases in the intake that we have condemned and which can if necessary be used to inject fresh air.

For my part I remain persuaded that one should in reality make pass in such a device only and only the emulsion. The engine needs fresh air. I already work on another plane, but first we go to the end of our turbinator and then we switch to the other principle where we will divert the emulsion of a carburetor to send only this one in a much more spiral simple and above all waterproof ...
Case to follow.

ndc
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Targol
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by Targol » 29/01/07, 17:05

Sdc77 wrote:Case to follow.

ndc


Impatiently :D
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lio74
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by lio74 » 29/01/07, 20:25

Christophe wrote:Waaw very good initiative!

I will follow this subject with interest! I find the photos very good for a GSM device;)


HHHHAAAA :D :D : Cheesy: : Cheesy: :D :D finally an econologist who attacks collimasson ... hope that it is contagious .... there is enough to smoke brain even more : Lol:

well for the realization of the double spiral ... the welder must have had fun !!!

@ +++++
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binbins4
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by binbins4 » 29/01/07, 23:09

hello everyone, I too started the proto (the photos will come tomorrow)

it is true that for sealing you have a serious problem!
should be found a material which holds 800 degree and which does not decompose with the vapor of gasoline stuck on the plates

but the drawings of chambrin does not show your idea, but winding of the gas ech of 2 turn to heat the admisson then passes to outside with a good insulation, then an ionization with candles, under a defined frequency

https://www.econologie.com/file/brevets/ ... 302420.pdf
https://www.econologie.com/file/brevets/ ... 263390.pdf

in which region live, you do not mantione it in your avatar?
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Sdc77
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by Sdc77 » 07/02/07, 11:20

Hi everybody.

We still have sealing problems on our turbinator, but this weekend we did a most revealing test !!

We simply diverted the emulsion well of the original fuel of the engine (so exit our spiral, original configuration).
We drilled a hole in the carburetor opposite the outlet of the well, plugged the well by inverting the nozzle and mounted the air and fuel nozzle on a steel tube. We made an S with the relatively long tube in order to be able to heat it with a torch.

Aim of the game: to see if the engine is still running on petrol with a well more than 20cm long, and to see if the water dissociates by passing through the red-hot tube not far from 900 ° C.

Result: the engine runs on petrol, with a slight hole during acceleration, but then it takes its turns. Given the precariousness of our assembly, it is too dangerous to heat the hose with petrol in it. but we think about it.

By cons we heated with water guess what comes out of the nozzle?

SOME WATER !!! and in liquid form !! Nozzle outlet temperature 12 ° C.

Of course the engine idles (because we did not divert the idle jet or the recovery pump) but as soon as we accelerate, it grazes, and it stalls.
and we had to put a 2x larger nozzle so that the water is sprayed (which is what s1r9a9m9 said to change the nozzles on its water + plasma engine)

Conclusion: You send fleet to your engines with your G systems! You might as well put a drip above the intake, without being pissed at modifying the exhaust, making a bubbler etc ...

My colleague who hesitated to make a pantone, there at least he knows he will not do it!

I will try to take photos this evening.

We continue our principle but we have already thought of something more waterproof, difficult to describe just with words, but basically, we would have an annealed copper tube, bent into a snail. In this tube passes the admission and around the exhaust. This tube is sandwiched between 2 steel plates which means that the exhaust follows the spiral. And even if a small amount passes between the tube and a plate, whatever, there will be no intake / exhaust leak.

ndc
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by Pastekos » 07/02/07, 11:35

SOME WATER !!! and in liquid form !! Nozzle outlet temperature 12 ° C.


It may seem surprising for a tube heated to almost 900 ° C but it can be explained simply.

We all had the experience of putting a drop of water on an electric hot plate (everyone had that to cook when we are a student :) )

And strangely the drop rolls freely on the plate, but does not immediately go into vapor.

In reality, when the droplet comes into contact with the heating plate, a layer of vapor is created which in some ways serves as thermal insulation. So the drop of water is placed on a layer of gas (water vapor).

Maybe the same thing happens in your pipe at 900 ° C.
It is perhaps to avoid this phenomenon that in pantone type reactors, there is a rod inside.

Nico.
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Sdc77
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by Sdc77 » 07/02/07, 12:03

This is why we made an S. the water comes up against the elbows of the S and has plenty of time to dissociate / evaporate. And there we have no taste but a spray.
The blow of the 12 ° park against him is easily explained: A depression created of freshness! The intake pipes of cars are traversed by coolant or even by exhaust gases on certain engines, otherwise they would freeze!

ndc
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by I Citro » 07/02/07, 13:27

Andre wrote:For the panton in 100% what goes into the reactor is so rich that even heated to 900c this will never light up
In a panton we let fuel go with very little air
it looks a little like a gas or the manufacture of charcoal, a reaction that is done with a small amount of oxygen, it emerges a gas and it is only that we add the air to make the right mix in the engine
the rule of the right ratio for the engine we can not pass next
it's like all explosion engines.
Chambrin made him pass all the carburetted mixture produced by the carburetor, but the exit should not exceed the 300c, it takes a very big exchanger to raise the temperature of all the air that the engine downstream (all the fuel with just a little of air to maintain the gouttelletes in suspention it is realizable)
makes a quick calculation of the weight of the air swallowed in an engine in one hour, and exhaust gases output the only heat usable in these processes.
In an oversized 100% panton it is possible to have equal temperature output exhaust reactor and exhaust gas reactor either half of the temperature exhaust motor output, these values ​​improve slightly with the full load of the engine.

Andre


So in Pantone, we must obtain gas temperatures at the reactor outlet, much higher than those of Chambrin.
But when we fuel the pantone gases with the intake air, this temperature must drop, right? with the risk of recondensing the gas, right?

For the surface or section of passage, I first thought like others that it was necessary to keep the same as that of the exhaust.
However, this section is sized for full load, so there is room and, by reducing the section we optimize the heat exchange (and ionic?) There is a drop in pressure from the exhaust at the reactor outlet (therefore drop temperature).
We can then "release" the exhaust at the level of the silencer or the expansion valve if there is one. It is annoying to have 2 "trigger pots that disturb each other ... No?
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by denis » 07/02/07, 14:52

hello the new !, very well, I had a similar project (lack of time), there is a flat gasket to cut, which can serve as a cylinder head gasket! at rector (see by AD)

for condensation, I'm also afraid with the exchanger, more my focus tddi, is traditional direct injection, which is not great from what I read to you. I will continue on the essences (deuch + bmw)
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by lio74 » 07/02/07, 15:09

Sdc77 wrote:In addition, the pantone would be subject to the same punishment!
And I did not invent anything, Pantone and Chambrin either.
Our father to all I will say that it is Charles Pogues.
I am only interpreting a mix of all these systems.


hi the turbinators : Cheesy:

who is this gentleman Pogues?

@+

ok i just saw this: https://www.econologie.com/forums/super-carburateur-pogue-nelson-de-1930-t2297.html
sorry to clutter up with my question : Lol:

re @ +
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