Injection of water in a 2 engine time

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
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Injection of water in a 2 engine time




by orbs » 20/12/09, 16:10

Hello
please I would like to know if the subject of this message, was treated on the forum.
if not, do you think the process conceivable?
please
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Re: water injection in 2-stroke engine




by Alain G » 20/12/09, 17:23

orbs wrote:Hello
please I would like to know if the subject of this message, was treated on the forum.
if not, do you think the process conceivable?
please
@+
orbs


For having done snowmobile racing, I can tell you that it is very dangerous to inject water into these 2-stroke engines, because the combustion temperature becomes very high which favors the seizure of the piston rings on the cylinder.

The 2-stroke cools with a surplus of gasoline or consumption and higher pollution, naturally if you talk about diesel it is different because the combustion temperature is much lower as the engine speed.
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by Former Oceano » 20/12/09, 20:04

I move this topic not to the right place ...
In addition water injection in a 2T at what level? Before the valves the water will go into the casing and may corrode parts ....
I am not at all convinced of the effectiveness because there is a risk of making mayonnaise with the lubricant mixed with ai and petrol ...
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Re: water injection in 2-stroke engine




by Flytox » 20/12/09, 22:57

Hello Alain
Alain G wrote:For having done snowmobile racing, I can tell you that it is very dangerous to inject water into these 2-stroke engines, because the combustion temperature becomes very high which favors the seizure of the piston rings on the cylinder.


Can you tell us more about your 2-stroke gasoline water injection tests? How it is injected, at what temperature, influences the power, the torque, the consumption, the parts which take bad etc ... :P
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Re: water injection in 2-stroke engine




by Alain G » 21/12/09, 00:09

Flytox wrote:Hello Alain
Alain G wrote:For having done snowmobile racing, I can tell you that it is very dangerous to inject water into these 2-stroke engines, because the combustion temperature becomes very high which favors the seizure of the piston rings on the cylinder.


Can you tell us more about your 2-stroke gasoline water injection tests? How it is injected, at what temperature, influences the power, the torque, the consumption, the parts which take bad etc ... :P
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Hi flytox!

I certainly did not test water injection on a 2-stroke snowmobile, because firstly the water freezes in the winter and given the unparalleled power versus the engine displacement, it is at the limit of melting of the piston, during the race we reduce the jets to obtain the best performance, but this varies according to the ambient humidity, more humid> larger jet, same if it's colder, more if snow penetrates in the motor there is seizure at the entrance to the door.
The excess gasoline cools the piston, but I don't think the water does the same, at least in small quantities it improves combustion, which overheats the piston. It would be possible with a direct injection but not on a snowmobile given the problem of storing unfrozen water.


I do not have any experience of water injection over a 2 stroke except what I have just briefly explained.
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Re: water injection in 2-stroke engine




by oiseautempete » 21/12/09, 17:13

Alain G wrote:The excess gasoline cools the piston, but I don't think the water does the same, at least in small quantities it improves combustion, which overheats the piston.


The purpose of the water injection in the engines of 39-45 planes was to cool down to avoid knocking when operating at maximum power or in "boost" mode (increased boost pressure) ...
Water in a 2 step: blah, because water + oil = mayonnaise = rapid blocking of the segments ...
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Re: water injection in 2-stroke engine




by Flytox » 21/12/09, 22:02

oiseautempete wrote:The purpose of the water injection in the engines of 39-45 planes was to cool down to avoid knocking when operating at maximum power or in "boost" mode (increased boost pressure) ...
Water in a 2 step: blah, because water + oil = mayonnaise = rapid blocking of the segments ...


I suppose that the mayonnaise is not created in a few milliseconds, that does not mean that the water improves the lubrication of the high engine and the low engine too. : Mrgreen:

Also in karting, the low engine does not appreciate at all the joke of eating water. If you have the means, a race underwater = a low engine to do again .... if you don't want to break everything at the next opportunity.

In principle, injecting water vapor, like that produced by a Gillier Pantone, seems very favorable to help homogenize the charge (very inconsistent between the gases burned in quantity and the fresh charge at the perfectible dosage).

There remains the problem of knowing where to inject this vapor. Under the piston, the low engine will not appreciate so much. You can inject water (not cold) into the cylinder head a little before top dead center (expensive and not easy ...).

We can also invent a dedicated transfer which does not pass through the lower engine to convey the steam for example in the direction of the cylinder head (as the 5th transfer will do on the improved Schnurles). I suppose that the development should not be convenient (possible tightening if the water arrives in liquid form ...).
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by Capt_Maloche » 22/12/09, 09:54

to inject water in two stages, as for a 4-stroke, an injection proportional to the quantity of fuel is required.

The 2-stroke oil has an auto-ignition temperature much lower than that of gasoline, which allows it to stick a little to the walls, but the injection of water will improve the combustion of unburnt materials and therefore reduce lubrication by "consuming" the oil.

This explains the overheating that you noticed
So you could cool a little with a more sustained water injection
You can also increase the% oil of the mixture in this case

combustion reactions:
H2O + C = CO + H2 : the incandescent soot particles (the "bad burns") react with the water vapor, this requires a temperature above 950 ° C and if possible below 1300 ° C, hence the difficulties encountered by our amateur testers on all these systems

CO + H2O <> CO2 + H2 : CO from the first reaction and imperfect combustion reacts with steam to supply hydrogen; as the T ° must be greater than 950 ° C otherwise there will be excess CO

H2+2O2<>2H2O The hydrogen produced by the first two reactions contributes to the destruction of the unburnt, to maintain the explosion longer and thus to increase the yield.

and so on until there is no more O2
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by Capt_Maloche » 22/12/09, 10:07

You can also re-inject the burnt gases which contain around 50% of water vapor, and which prevents you from getting on the fleet

An EGR valve what :D

Knowing that it is between 5 and 30% of water vapor according to the regimes, your reinjection can be adjusted with a simple valve

you can also buy a ready-made EGR valve and adapt it to your machine, see for example the new Euro 5 Valéo valves mounted on the cooling circuit to cool the gases and avoid fouling

like for example my Vel Satis
https://www.econologie.com/forums/voiture-di ... 9-460.html
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by oiseautempete » 22/12/09, 10:17

Capt_Maloche wrote: also the T ° must be higher than 950 ° C otherwise there will be excess CO



: Shock: except if I was told of stuffs during my mechanics lessons, in a gasoline engine, the combustion is at ~ 2000 ° C at its highest point ... when at the temperature of the gases in expansion at the level of the exhaust valve, it is at ~ 850 ° C, 950 ° C in the worst case (engine pushed to ultimate power), the 1300 ° is only reached in modern jet engine turbines with metal fins internally cooled specials ...
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