Horizontal wind turbine on vehicle

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Olivier22
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by Olivier22 » 10/12/08, 18:05

Hi, well the tone is rising!

I have identified THE thing that you do not understand is that a wind turbine + the engine compartment slows the air more than the engine compartment alone.
Your example of the parachute illustrates this.
The engine compartment does not completely stop the air (impossible), it deflects it; so it remains a flow, and the more obstacles we place on this flow, the more it is braked ...

Either the wind turbine brakes in a tiny way and recovers a tiny power too ; either it brakes a lot in proportion (if we turn the engine behind for example : Mrgreen: ) and recover a lot ...
There is a direct relationship between the braking caused by the wind turbine and the power it provides: and, the efficiency being necessarily less than 1, this ratio promotes braking.

I can see that you don't believe me, but I have now been studying fluid mechanics and aerodynamics at school for 3 years, and I also have the pilot's license (which includes a good deal of aerodynamics), so I think I "touch my ball" a little ...
It is a little contemptuous to take people for ignorant people because you do not assimilate what they say.

If I had a smooth simulation software on my PC I would do a little modeling but unfortunately I only have my keyboard to convince you ...
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iridium
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by iridium » 11/12/08, 09:48

it seems to me that highflyaddict has taken gloves to answer you by apologizing in advance for the tone, etc.
on the other hand, your answer ....

Because for you, taking gloves allows you to take some liberties!?!?!?
I do not think, by the way, is not registered on the charter of the forum.

The engine compartment does not completely stop the air (impossible), it deflects it; so it remains a flow, and the more obstacles we place on this flow, the more it is braked ...

I totally agree with you and I understood this point of view.
Now let's talk about numbers.
with a surface like that of the bumper, or that of the grille, what power can we get from a wind turbine.
this added obstacle is completely negligible in front of the brake represented by the rest of the vehicle.
In addition it really represents a brake only when it is necessary to put it in inertia, that is to say in the acceleration phase of the vehicle at constant speed, the braking remains negligible.
once in rotation the brake is practically zero.
It was that my death tests showed me the knot.
I agree that the continuous air has flowed in one way or another but the force it implies on the vehicle is enormous before it makes its way.

I carried out tests yesterday with a simple fan mounted on a cardboard plate for the purpose of weighing.

Weighing was impossible our scale accurate to the nearest 1/1000 of a gram cannot exceed 100gr of weighing.

but as for the first test, the cardboard moves back more pale blocked or then full cardboard, than fan free.

Next test:
Modeled plainly with a cardboard box perforated at the back, an engine compartment always with a front fan and without "full surface" fan

Is it that last test seems sufficiently well modeled for tlm before I do it ????

I can see that you don't believe me, but I have now been studying fluid mechanics and aerodynamics at school for 3 years, and I also have the pilot's license (which includes a good deal of aerodynamics), so I think I "touch my ball" a little ...
It is a little contemptuous to take people for ignorant people because you do not assimilate what they say.

méaculpa for the last sentence, you are right even if it is not in my intention.
But please don't give me your status like you did.
Its been 5 years that I work in the national education university as a vulgar technician and I see teachers who know nothing about electronics and who give lessons to students like you.
status means nothing, only results count!

http://www.univ-valenciennes.fr/~etu/ac ... 519-1.html

On the other hand if you could model this meme later, its rendered a great service to tlm and also to me meme.
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tigrou_838
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wind turbine on car




by tigrou_838 » 11/12/08, 11:57

hello, i found this so i talked to you, i knew i saw that somewhere.

report find on the net, via google, searching for mitsubishi wind turbine car.

I just made a quick copy of the article, forgetting the website address. sorry for the copyright.

"" "We end with this lovely little city car with 2 seats. It's an electric car. Its hood is powered by solar energy. Two wind turbines are located on the front radiator. Even the braking is energy regenerative. A real car of the future, compatible with the Grenelle environmental goals. "" "

tigrou
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wind turbine on car




by tigrou_838 » 11/12/08, 13:08

hello, here I found the site.

http://blog-auto-infos.lci.fr/100-index.html

see below the "mitsubishi"

tigrou
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iridium
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by iridium » 11/12/08, 15:06

thank you tigger, for his links. 8)

for the others!

a colleague just as allergic to you as I imagined suddenly changed his mind when I saw my demos.

However, we agree on one thing:

How much energy to recover with this system ???

I would like to push his work further.
What does it exist as a fluid dynamics simulation software ????
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dirk pitt
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by dirk pitt » 11/12/08, 15:37

I saw and read the articles and discussions of forums Net about the i-Miev Mitubishi and its 2 turbines behind the grille.
it is a magnificent example of green-washing and the discussions a bit scientific of the net conclude that it is undoubtedly there a green fad of a boss and that the engineers of Mitsubishi still laugh about it in the corridors.

the facts are stubborn!
when theory is difficult, experiment. This is the only advice I can still give you.
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highfly-addict
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by highfly-addict » 11/12/08, 18:36

Iridium wrote:Now I expect proof from you of what you are doing when you don't agree with me!
considering the tone you used is the least of the things expected of you. :?:


: Lol:

Death laughing! No kidding: are you expecting proof from me? That it doesn't work? You have already had it before your eyes but you still have to see it ....

Take a look at all rolling motor vehicles: are you really convinced that you are the first to have this idea? This is not the case ... and if "your" concept worked then we would already have wind turbines on all the cars!

But my dear iridium, it is you who proposes and who launches the subject ....

We therefore expect a minimum of understanding effort from you when we make the effort to explain (and re-explain) that your idea is not valid.

WE do not "expect" more, but not less either. Instead, you keep telling us that we haven't understood anything, in short: bravo!

As for the tone I use, it seems to me that it remains civil, which is not your case (little ego bp?).

In short, I drop the case!


PS: Thank you DIRK and the others, it feels good not to feel alone, good luck for the rest!
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Olivier22
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by Olivier22 » 11/12/08, 20:10

Okay, Iridium you are looking for someone who masters the subject but you question the skills of anyone, whatever their experience, it is a bit contradictory.

Maybe you will trust BERNOULLI? He touched his ball in mecaflu him.

So I made a small Excel sheet based on Bernoulli's theorem, I pass it to you if you want (well, it's OpenOffice but I can pass it in Excel, tell me which software you have).
The flow is represented in an ultra-simplified manner, by a conduit with an inlet speed and pressure, and an outlet speed and pressure. In this conduit, 2 obstacles: the wind turbine and the engine compartment. Each causes a singular pressure drop in the form K.Ro.v² / 2 (you can play on the coef K for each obstacle).
The speeds are to be entered manually because they depend on unknown parameters (passage section, etc.). You have to go there with a ladle.
The values ​​are not real but their behavior is: for example to make quickly I set Ro = P (since it is proportional).
Image
I put the window twice to be able to compare with / without a wind turbine.

Give me your email I send you the file (excel or openoffice?), And you will have fun trying to have a lower real loss with wind turbine ... You will see.

I took an 80% yield for the wind turbine.

(P = Pressure, V = speed, Ro = volume m, H = load)
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dirk pitt
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by dirk pitt » 11/12/08, 20:37

oliver22,

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low hat, respect.

I want you to send me your excel sheet by MP
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Olivier22
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by Olivier22 » 11/12/08, 20:39

We cannot send an attachment by MP or else I don't know how to do it
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