electrolysis improved

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 27/10/14, 00:11

Thank you for doing the math, and I will correct some of the usual inaccuracies and clichés widely reported by the press ...
elephant wrote:OK, let's say (these are not "long haul") 12.000 km / year for 10 years (to make an order of magnitude.
I feel in your words a "value judgment" to minimize the value and interest of these vehicles, yet they are bought to save money and are aimed at people who drive a lot, we have traveled more than 18.000km per year with a single 106 electric (whose autonomy capped at 70km), we expect to drive at least as much with the e-up. Today, we did 140km on a single charge and passed the 5000km mark in 3 and a half months.
elephant wrote:5000 € / 120.000 km = 4 cents / km, 4 euros / 100 km, the price of 2,6 liters of diesel. + 15 KWh, or € 1,65 / 100 km. (Night rate, assuming you have no PV)
The batteries are given for 2000 cycles either if I table on 120km per cycle a possible mileage of 240.000km or double your estimates.
This calls into question your calculations and the very idea of ​​the cost of batteries which becomes irrelevant because we can then consider that their longevity will be greater than the rest of the car ...
elephant wrote:Therefore, 2,6 + 1,65 = 4,25 € / 100 km, i.e. the price of 2,8 liters of diesel / 100 km. OK, that's okay. I'm happy to have done the calculation (approximate, I agree, I did not account for the financing interest on the additional cost of the battery - easy 40% of its price in 4 years -) because the manufacturers seem discreet on the price of the battery still represents, agree, more than 50% of the price of a new small car (8500 €) and 40% of the price of "fuel".

Given the reduced autonomy, it is still transport inaccessible to the poor.
The eternal cliché of autonomy is stupidity, like that of the 4x4 people carrier that allows you to do everything, and mainly flatter the ego of its owner ...
Autonomy is sufficient for all the daily journeys of 80% of households. Since we have the e-up, we charge it every other day on average ... Too little autonomy?
The savings made it possible to rent a minivan or a convertible for exceptional journeys ...
I am not rich, I just changed the calculation method, many poor people spend more than me on transport to travel less kilometers ...

I have 20m² of solar panels. They produce enough to drive 25.000km per year with the e-up. As for the cost of the batteries, I think they will survive the car and be able to recycle them to store my solar production. Renault and Nissan have thus planned the life of the batteries, I intend to take up the idea for my benefit.
This is why I am experimenting with their management with a very advanced BMS developed by a member of the forum... : Mrgreen:
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elephant
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by elephant » 27/10/14, 13:07

You have to keep it right, Citro, you are neither completely wrong nor completely right.

10. at 15000 km this is the average in Belgium for "Madame's car"
and certain households can adapt: ​​for example, when Madame leaves for training, she can borrow the family petrol car.

But, there are still many families who do not have the possibility of having signs (roof too small or badly located, apartment, etc.) and there too, you need to have money or access to credit.

And also the need for flexibility: we cannot program everything. Today, I have planned to do 80 km, but no one can assure me that I shouldn't like doing an emergency on Bruxellles (70 km X 2) or Rochefort (100 km X2).

And please, before imposing solutions, let's think further than in our restricted circle. The income of 60% of households does not allow this.
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elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 27/10/14, 23:11

Of course, and that is not my purpose. :?
I'm not trying to "impose" or declare that 80% of households must switch to electric because their daily trips correspond to the range of an EV ...

To calmly switch to electricity, the majority of the accounting criteria must be met;
The daily mileage, of course, but also,
have the parking place and private charge that is not on the public highway,
have routine journeys with little unexpected ...

I know that your profile is not at all compatible
but many civil servants, bureaucrats, farmers, workers correspond to the profile.
I am talking about all those who take their individual car because there is no bus or tram line which corresponds to their commuting, their car plays the role of bus or tram ...
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by elephant » 28/10/14, 00:04

We agree, then.
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elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
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by I Citro » 29/10/14, 16:54

elephant wrote:We agree, then.
From the beginning. : Arrowu:
The electric vehicle is not a universal mode of transport (not yet ...). : Mrgreen:
Likewise, the thermal vehicle will see its areas of use decrease more and more.
Widespread urban tolls are sparing electrics.
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by nlc » 22/12/14, 14:58

I can not believe it still exists about it : Lol:
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by Capt_Maloche » 22/12/14, 15:32

Yeah Nlc, we hung our basques there for a while Image

The future gentlemen is the bubble bike :D
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"Consumption is similar to a search consolation, a way to fill a growing existential void. With, the key, a lot of frustration and a little guilt, increasing the environmental awareness." (Gérard Mermet)
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
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by elephant » 22/12/14, 18:09

Glad to see you're still living, nlc. But why did you dig up the subject?
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elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
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by I Citro » 22/12/14, 21:06

elephant wrote:Glad to see you're still living, nlc. But why did you dig up the subject?
He said it, because he can't get over the fact that this subject exists ... For the past 9 months and 35.000km of driving an electric car, remember that he once tried to blow bubbles to make driving a petroleum car takes him out ...
: Lol:

We said to ourselves a short time ago that hydrogen is a heresy but new lobbies are trying to impose this energy vector on us, against and against all the scientific and economic reasons which de facto condemn hydrogen ...

This subject has somehow demonstrated this with 20 years in advance ... :?
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by Obamot » 23/12/14, 12:35

Is it really so safe that hydrogen would be a worse solution?

- First of all, there is no mass production / storage of hydrogen in the current state (Japanese manufacturers who already have or will release a vehicle based on hydrogen fuel cells will therefore create their own network with standardized connection (someone with a Honda vehicle, can go "refuel" at Toyota, Mazda or Mitsubishi and vice versa);

- then, they will propose it after its extraction drawn from natural gas or methane ...);

- but the "deposits" of this / s gas are potentially enormous, and as it is a greenhouse gas even more important than Co2 ... ridding the planet of it would only be beneficial ...

- then there is still unexploited thermal solar energy, the potential for which it would be high time to develop (and one of the vectors of which could precisely be the storage of hydrogen in the form of formic acid or whatever )

- thus the extraction of hydrogen from the gas, would only be a transitory alternative ...

- drawn from this logic, hydrogen fuel cells would have a clear course for the future, and the switch towards "all non-polluting hydrogen", from production to transformation into water vapor, would already be in place at the moment came.

- on the other hand, with oil, nothing similar is possible, the transition with one day the new and definitive explosion in the price of the barrel, would have very painful repercussions!

And then the farts of employees working in a building equipped with a methane recovery facility, how many meters / cubes / year would that be? What about those on farms? : Mrgreen:

If that's not green! Image Image
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