H2 fuel economy, ideas ...

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
Bibiphoque
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H2 fuel economy, ideas ...




by Bibiphoque » 04/06/08, 15:08

Hello,
Some loose ideas:

Almost all of the H2 generators by electrolysis are connected to the car's battery.
The energy pumped by this electrolysis "slows down" the operation of the vehicle by the effect of the back-electromotive forces induced in the alternator, thus increasing consumption.

Using an independent battery would only move the problem to another source.

On the other hand, there are possibilities, which seem to approach the profitable or very profitable, if one uses the caloric energy lost in the exhaust gases to produce electricity.
Especially if this transformation does not induce a load on the engine.
This solution is possible with thermo-electric generators, but for the implementation, I have no idea, nor for the cost price.
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This is not because we always said that it is impossible that we should not try :)
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tigrou_838
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fuel economy by H2 injection




by tigrou_838 » 04/06/08, 15:16

hello, at the level of ideas,

there is also the electrolyser plugged into the battery, but with a coil between the battery and the electrolyser, which makes it possible to have a current of 20kv to 40kv in pulsed for the electrolyser with only 1A to 3A of consumption in 12v .

therefore in the operating sequence of automus alternators.

tigrou : Mrgreen:
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rodibruno
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Re: fuel economy by H2 injection




by rodibruno » 04/06/08, 19:03

tigrou_838 wrote:hello, at the level of ideas,

there is also the electrolyser plugged into the battery, but with a coil between the battery and the electrolyser, which makes it possible to have a current of 20kv to 40kv in pulsed for the electrolyser with only 1A to 3A of consumption in 12v .

therefore in the operating sequence of automus alternators.

tigrou : Mrgreen:


Hi Tigger:
how would we be the scheme? which coils would be used? can you be more specific
Thank you

Rhodes
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jonule
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by jonule » 05/06/08, 09:47

gasoline engine coil! another Tesla invention ...
it turns a low voltage into super tension! but with the same power it seems to me ...

if not for the explanation of "why the H2 produced from the electrolyser is not exploited by the engine and induces an overconsumption" I put back:

"
Hello everybody

something simple to try:
inject a "start pilot" (ether) spray in front of the vehicle's air intake, engine at idle you will see the engine go up in revs 1 second ... representative test that can be fed via the intake of the flammable gas for the engine.




Then ...
an explanation of "H2 burns before being used by the engine":
Like what it is not the whole to produce gas, it must be exploited.
this could be valid by changing the advance of the injection pump injection for example, one can note that on certain bosch pumps there is a lever to MANUALLY adjust the advance to the injection? in other words, the pump must be replaced.


"
the ignition advance is a function of the fuel and the compression ratio.
the more you compress, the less the advance must be.
this is why you can drive ess 95 on an old engine if the compression ratio is less than 9: 1.
basically the more explosive we are, the less the advance must be great because otherwise we give energy before pmh which becomes the opposite effect of what we want (explosion battery at pmh.
in diesel, (in petrol also elsewhere) if you put hydrogen, you have to decrease the advance (therefore approach the injection of pmh) because the combustion speed increasing (from 20 to 2000) combustion occurs too early, and we lose power so we consume more.
in summary, your test is not constructive because you keep your fuel settings (slow combustion) and the more hydrogen you produce, the more you will use fuel (gasol) and the less powerful you will be (unless you decrease your lead at the pump, unlike vegetable oil operation or it is increased.)
in summary, the feed should be reduced depending on the dosage or the motive should only be supplied with hydrogen with an advance at pmh.
this is why it is necessary to carry out its tests in petrol engine with a power dyn type allimage (we adjust its advance in the passenger compartment)

maybe it's not very clear, but looking at a distribution diagram it makes sense.
any engine preparer will have understood and will not bounce back with explanations or a simpler diagram.
"








for ratios:
"
Do not exceed
a certain flow of hydrogen when mixed with
gasoline ... here is basically why (according to this
that a mechanical engineer explained to me):

1- The essence draws its power from its power
anti-detonator, therefore, to its ability not to fart!
By decomposing without jumping right away, the heat
of the reaction becomes very large and therefore, the dilation
larger air intake. Also, the lower the octane
is high, LESS gasoline is explosive! So it burns
much more warmly ...

2- By mixing hydrogen, it improves combustion
by increasing the decomposition of the molecule
extremely complex essence. So it creates
more heat and therefore more power. Making
that it is not necessary to press so hard on the
mushroom to go at the same speed, hence the economy!

3- The problem ... Hydrogen is a powerful detonator.
Used alone, the molecule produces enough expansion
gas by jumping to run an engine but
mixed with the essence, the desired effects are canceled.
She jumps before the gas can heat up, the latter
fouls the engine twice as much while suffocating
the explosion of hydrogen!

4- SOLUTION 1: Use the correct amount of hydrogen
enough to help break down the molecule
without detonating. I don't have exact figures, but
I know that in a four-liter engine
medium, i.e. 1.5 to 2.2 liters, 4 to 5 amps are largely
sufficient to accomplish this task. We are talking about 5 to 6 A
for a V6 and 7 to 8 A for a V8. I have this info
from a Montreal experimenter who has several dozen
of complete and functional installations on vehicles
of all brands. He stupidly uses steel rods
very durable stainless steel in water solutions saturated with salt
or NAOH. All working with the right hurdy-gurdy
classical electrolysis technique with DC current
pulled from the battery. Make the necessary conversions
to get the literature, I'm not a chemist or physicist!

2 solution:
Only run on hydrogen, if produced in large enough
amount!
"

taken from :
http://generation-hydrogene.forumpro.fr/index.htm






THEN ... why would the electrolysis gas not be taken into account by the engine, and that of the pantone YES?
"
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Bibiphoque
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by Bibiphoque » 05/06/08, 10:54

Hello,
A car ignition coil has a power between 250 and 300W, in 12v, it's 20A max.
What seemed important to me was to recover thermal energy which would be lost anyway.
"On the other hand, there are possibilities, which seem to approach the profitable or very profitable, if one uses the caloric energy lost in the exhaust gases to produce electricity.
Especially if this transformation does not induce a load on the engine.
This solution is possible with thermoelectric generators
"
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This is not because we always said that it is impossible that we should not try :)
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by jonule » 05/06/08, 11:19

well it seems to me that in this case the mass is said:
stirling engine coupled to the exhaust, recharging batteries for the hybrid electric engine!

this is also how the individual should recharge their future electric vehicle: with solar stirling or coupled to the boiler ...
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rodibruno
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by rodibruno » 05/06/08, 14:10

jonule wrote:well it seems to me that in this case the mass is said:
stirling engine coupled to the exhaust, recharging batteries for the hybrid electric engine!

this is also how the individual should recharge their future electric vehicle: with solar stirling or coupled to the boiler ...


Hi :
time I had the same idea: Stirling by charging the batteries, and I proposed it in a group from Brazil that I announce, but nobody took this idea.
Now they are working with a new concept:
a low voltage in the cell of 7 plates, about 4 volts (it does not generate this H in a large quantity, but it keeps the plates energized) and works with a pulsating high voltage DC coil which is the one that produces hydrogen.

Rhodes
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jonule
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by jonule » 05/06/08, 14:52

yep?

could you please develop rodibruno?

it looks interesting, here we did not do like that, and no results ...
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rodibruno
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by rodibruno » 06/06/08, 04:07

jonule wrote:yep?

could you please develop rodibruno?

it looks interesting, here we did not do like that, and no results ...


Hello friends:
Le forum is with a Portuguese, I think they should look for a web translator to understand the texts, I don't speak French either ... but with a little effort I think we understand each other .. a truth?
I agree to try to explain what they do not understand, within my possibilities ... and that of my translator ...

http://br.groups.yahoo.com/group/carro_ ... ssage/7210

"Massware" is what brings forward this new form of electrolysis: who seems to be happy !!
I hope to be of help, and also thank the help received in this forum.
Hugs from Argentina !!
Rhodes
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