Economies by reheating fuel?

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
fredtek
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Registration: 20/08/07, 11:23




by fredtek » 21/08/07, 14:53

ok with what is said but a few remarks anyway!
heating the diesel before injecting it means that there is less in the cylinder than when it is cold, so suddenly fuel economy, better vaporization, but also loss of power, the proof; on new engines the temperature of the fuel is measured to make corrections to the injection pump via the famous electronic boxes, the injection times are then longer.
in conclusion, if it is to bring in less diesel to consume less and have less power, may be better
buy a lower displacement car, right?
liters of diesel consumed must necessarily be compared to the energy they provided when moving the vehicle to be credible. in short, what must be targeted is an increase in efficiency and not only a decrease in consumption without knowing what these have delivered as energy.
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Other
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by Other » 21/08/07, 15:19

Hello
but also loss of power, the proof; on the new engines the temperature of the fuel is measured to make corrections on the injection pump via the famous electronic boxes, the injection times are then longer
.

It is not evidence of good performance. Certain new engine controls the temperature of the gasol because the very high pressure pump are sensitive to expansion. the principle of the common rail is different a high flow of high pressure diesel circulates therefore it heats up, unlike the old pump there is a large flow but low pressure what passes in high pressure for any practical purpose is consumed, except the some oozing around the injectors and pump piston
Many vehicles have heating oil filters with the water circuit of the LDR engine certain it is electrically thermostatically controlled
in general it is in the 40c
The gasol becomes less lubricating at 60C otherwise it would heat it to 80C
the purpose of the heating is to obtain better spraying which reduces the classic beating of the diesels
In the middle of winter, in very cold weather, even with a hot engine, a diesel has a characteristic noise in summer at 30c. This noise is very soft.

Andre
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fredtek
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Registration: 20/08/07, 11:23




by fredtek » 21/08/07, 18:00

hi André,
what I hold for proof, it is only that it is necessary to inject more hot diesel than cold to guarantee the same performances of an engine.
the corrections made the electronic management are there only to make leave the same number of kW that it is with hot or cold gasol, like you and I did not say it these corrections are not a proof of good performance.
what I wanted to make clear is that, it is not because its engine consumes 5 liters with hot gasol compared to 6 liters with unheated gasol that there has been an increase in yield; ecologically speaking it is very good for the earth
but on the level of our engine, the reheating brought practically nothing or so little (to raise the temperature of a liquid intended to burn by taking these calories on the cooling is always good to take) from where my reflexion to buy smaller if you need less kW, earlier than consuming less with an under-operated engine.
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Other
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by Other » 21/08/07, 21:20

Hello
When 2 WV Gulf identical old model rolls on the highway on winter and that the heated diesel runs + or - 5 kmh faster, there is a little something.
Arreté in the red light, at the end of the highway the guy I had just passed stops and asks me what I did to the engine?
Mercedes since the 86s installs a diesel heater

Andre
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fredtek
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Registration: 20/08/07, 11:23




by fredtek » 21/08/07, 22:25

yes André, there is certainly a little something, in a conventional power station, the fuel and the oxidizer are both warmed up, that may be what happened in your mill.
there in the example that you give, there is indeed an increase in the power, but it would still be necessary to see if at this moment which of you two consumed the most compared to its restored power to be certain of the increase in output by heating the gas oil.
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fredtek
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Registration: 20/08/07, 11:23




by fredtek » 21/08/07, 22:32

As in many areas, we would have to go to a laboratory to check all of this, and that for the small DIY enthusiasts that we are, it's not at all easy to determine if we simply boosted performance at the cost of an over- consumption or if indeed we collect more power with the same or less amount of diesel.
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jonule
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Registration: 15/03/05, 12:11




by jonule » 22/08/07, 10:03

I had already read the demonstration of fuel heating ...
in any case on common rail injection, is there a hot fuel "bath" on the common rail, ready for injection ?! ...

on my TD 1.9 original bosch injector pump at 175 bars I am 100% I just added a pre-wash pump, which apparently could be avoided if we loop the hot return of the injection pump, because instead of have a low pressure circuit (0.3 bar) which circulates quickly on which the "high pressure" injection pump (150 to 200 bars) is used (turbo diesel injection data), for a fluid fuel (diesel), the oil stagnates in this new circuit has been completed and is moving at the speed of consumption, as André explains, and has time to be warmed up.

the fuel filters heated by coolant all have an internal calorstat, which can be unleashed, mine is, so the fuel oil is heated to the maximum that the coolant can give;
of origin it is only "if T ° C fuel> at 10 ° C, go through the diesel filter, if <= at 10 ° C, go first through the heat exchanger", and there it is is "goes through the heat exchanger then the filter".

more info:
http://www.nrjrealiste.fr/oil/rechauff.html


PS:
André wrote:One of my fistons (Jetta) had replaced the diesel filter with an automotive oil filter that was as effective as running on diesel!

well it's nice to hear that!
actually it makes sense!
a 5µm fuel filter and a 10µm engine oil filter!
the diesel filter is intended for diesel and its impurities (supermarket station), the oil filter is provided ... for oil! which does not need to be filtered at 5µm, and even at 10µm, because the 10µm is intended for impurities from the engine block (dirt from the oil pan)!
a famous "study on fuel oil etc" (download it from codeart.org) showed that 27µm was the ideal ...

there are cheap "modine" heat exchangers for the oil filter at the scrapyard, a remote example of the engine block is the renault space TD 2.2

Yours,
8)
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buga
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Registration: 24/02/05, 11:53




by buga » 22/08/07, 14:01

hello..i intervene succinctly ..
there is no need for a laboratory to confirm the André test, I think so;
1) they invert the "heater" from one "glof" to another;
2) they repeat the test under exactly the same conditions;
3) they calculate exactly their consumption ...
Finally, I hope I have thought of everything ...
but I do not strongly believe in fuel savings and greater power, just by heating the diesel ...

quoique..quoique ...

see you...
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Other
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by Other » 22/08/07, 16:11

Hello
the top speed ..
this is just an example to say that there is no loss of power by heating the gasiol, the pump rarely injects on an engine all its capacity of flow, of other parameter regulates
Rpm and air flow that the turbo supplied, otherwise we would be entitled to a cloud behind.

For the oil filter in place of the gas oil filter, to avoid it had engine problems, but this confirms that for the oil operation there is a lack of fuel around the pump, it is a reason why I made a kind of accumulator of 1litre close to the pump, that provided for acelleration ..
Ideally the original filter should be replaced by a larger boat filter
At Mercedes they have standardized their filter they are not expensive 15 $
but they are thinner, therefore more restrictive than the old ones, with diesel oil you don't notice anything, but with oil .. You just have to breathe in a new filter to realize the restriction (these filters generally work on sucking ..

For the tests on the reheating it is necessary to be based on a consumption several tanks, to minimize the errors, the gains are minimal, but measurable .. nothing that the softening of the engine justifies a reheating.

Andre
Reheating of petrol on a 3,8 liter multipoint injection engine

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fredtek
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posts: 10
Registration: 20/08/07, 11:23




by fredtek » 23/08/07, 12:36

Hi guys,
I have a common rail system, so, for the reheating test it is not worth it, I will not be able to check anything on my vehicle since I already have a hot fuel reserve in addition my vehicle is under warranty.
but as André demonstrated during his epic chase, there is at least an increase in power, it's already not bad!
I also remain convinced even if I have no proof or extensive testing on our part that reheating brings a very small improvement in performance; probably due to the fact of better vaporization and to the fact that return a preheated fuel in a cylinder fatally going to raise the temperature of combustion all proportionally compared to a system without reheating, so if Carnot and his thermodynamic theorems did not lie, I have the weakness to believe it, now, if the temperature the exhaust has increased too, well forgive me, it's that I was wrong!
I also remain convinced that to be sure it is better a lab, there are so many factors that come into play, immediately I think of the weather conditions, atmospheric pressure, wind speed, temperature, at least, these kind of parameters can already to be mastered in the lab, especially if it is a question of measuring a puilleme of performance. obviously, I will not say the same thing
if it was a question of measuring 2 tests with large differences, the, ok; no need for laboratory.
come on, guys soon!
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