Drawing for the bubbler water doping?

[RV-P]

Trust those who have done measured tests, on Quant'home you have those who have traveled to Morocco there you have credible figures that resemble those I get and several montages, You will notice that the construction of their bubbler is very simple and operational.

- Exactly: the bubbler that I am proposing (without wanting to build it myself for the moment) is "roughly" the same as that of page 9 of Michel David, whose diagram I gave a little above.
- In terms of simplicity of realization, for the tube, we can perfectly do it with 10 ready copper elbows and 11 pieces of copper pipe cut to the right length (including one perforated with holes of about 1 to 2mm ); all brazed with silver for example.
- For the pleated sheet, one can perfectly manufacture it in a "bottom" of drum of stainless steel washing machine, as well as the perforated anti-splash partitions which I propose to put to avoid a "rise of water" in the reactor .
- Except the valve, its stem and the bulb of the calorstat, the whole temperature regulation mechanism is outside and can be easily adjusted according to combustion parameters. There are three adjustment points:
* the nut on the spring of the valve stem,
* the pivot of the valve control rod,
* pressing on the calorstat rod.
- Regarding the magnetization of the reactor rod (which conditions the proper functioning of it), we can simply, instead of putting it in the north / south axis, magnetize it with a magnet and test if it is weakly magnetized with a simple compass! Have you tried the stub steel rods (much cheaper than the nickel rods)? Because if the steel rod of the reactor is not magnetized, the reactor does not work! Did you read this page, to see the why of the how of the magnetization of the rod?
- On the practical side, there is this farmer, Antoine G who, for his part, tried and obviously obtained very good results!
- And then, it is much better for a car to look for two connection points (exhaust gas and intake) rather than three (engine cooling, exhaust gas and intake), right!? ...
- @ +!

[Flytox]

Hello RV-P

Apparently you have read Quanthomme, it's very good, a lot of interesting stuff etc ... but you seem to have zapped la reference Pantone / Gillier pantone the best documented, constructed, discussed, evaluated ...... in fact Econology!

There are many posts really full of experience explanations, detailed reasoned discussions .... and the most advanced Experimenter by far in Pantone / Gillier Pantone ....... it is André! Read his interventions and know how to appreciate the experience he gives ....

[Flytox]

- I think I could draw inspiration from this diagram, which appeared on page 9 of Michel David:


, for the realization of the thermo-controlled valve! Place him a second calorstat to "bubble" only at the desired temperature.

Some doubts about this system, when the bubbler has a temperature lower than the opening temperature of the calorstat, it sends only steam (in fact very little) to the reactor, and the water has every chance of condensing in the piping. On the other hand, leaving the bubbling "free" makes it possible to bring air "permanently", steam when there is any, and the water droplets to the reactor. The chances of drowning the reactor seem to me much lower.
Of my assemblies, those that work best / the most tables, are those whose air circulation is never interrupted, even at slow speed.

[Flytox]

the exhaust in a diesel is bastard and it clogs the mechanisms

- Yes, but you forget something: on this page, it is well written:

Thus empirically it happens to let pass only 1/3 of the ambient air. Little by little, the results improve and the big glutton who consumed 21 liters / hour of the precious GO, is satisfied with 10 liters and adjustment after adjustment, the engine running better and better, getting rid of its old scale, consumption drops to 5 liters with a few liters of water.

Et the pot spits one transparent vapor practically odorless et the white handkerchief stays white : bet won!

The Pantone or Gillier Pantone pollutes less, we agree. But also agree with André, the exhaust remains disgusting (well surely less than original it is not difficult ) and if you use the exhaust gases you will see that everything goes black very quickly, upstream piping downstream reactor intake manifold everything! What is cleaned is the high engine and partly only the exhaust gases.

The good thing about the handkerchief test is that you can make him say anything. The "mesh" of the fabric is much much larger than the largest particle that passes through. What is stopped depends on ....... what is right paste to the fabric depending on the humidity, static electricity, the west wind and the age of the captain etc ..., it is representative of nothing at all but it is spectacular.

Even a modern car with a latest generation catalytic converter does not "not ankle..."

The problem with asserting this .... is that there should be scientific studies available to the public to prove it. Those who made them kept the result for themselves. (car manufacturers etc ...)

Even a modern car with a latest generation catalytic converter does not "come close" because catalytic converters, it "breaks" the particles which sink deeper into the lungs than the particles that come out of a "normal" pot (and these particles are carcinogenic!)! The G-Pantone system turns GO into GAS, so thatthere are NO more particles leaving the exhaust. And it works better on a Diesel than on a petrol!

No, the catalytic converters do not break the particles, it rather favors such or such chemical reactions which results in the transformation of certain gases and the formation of a whole panoply of particles of different sizes, and different downstream upstream. The catalytic converter is only a link in the production of particles between the fuel oil in the tank and the death that comes out of the silencer.

"No more particles"is a vision of the mind, all engines do it to varying degrees.

For the magnetism which would be important for the rod, it pleases a lot, ... to Sieur Pantone himself, it sounds "science", but it's totally bogus. Don't waste your time with this nonsense. All stainless steel reactors (non-magnetic) work the same !!!

[RV-P]

Some doubts about this system, when the bubbler has a temperature below the opening temperature of the calorstat, it sends only steam (in fact very little) to the reactor, and the water has every chance of condensing in the piping.

- It is for this reason that, in my proposed diagram, I did not do it!
- But the "culto" (Antoine G) who did it with his "fully integrated" system, he's wrong, then?!? ...

No, the catalytic converters do not break the particles, it rather favors such or such chemical reactions which results in the transformation of certain gases and the formation of a whole panoply of particles of different sizes, and different downstream upstream. The catalytic converter is only a link in the production of particles between the fuel oil in the tank and the death that comes out of the silencer.

- Well in any case, there are reports, scientific precisely, which tend to prove that the particles which leave a catalytic converter sink much more in the lungs because they are much finer!
- The "problem" of a system heated by water from the engine is that it is slower ... And for short trips (as I do at home), it's not the joy !
- If you don't approve the tissue test, then why here, Did Capt-Maloche do it!? ...
- But so far, I have only made one proposal, seeing the few ideas on the subject. If you don't agree ...
- @ +!

[Janic]

All stainless steel reactors (not magnetic) work the same !!! only austenitic stainless steel is non-magnetic.

[Flytox]

Some doubts about this system, when the bubbler has a temperature below the opening temperature of the calorstat, it sends only steam (in fact very little) to the reactor, and the water has every chance of condensing in the piping.

- It is for this reason that, in my proposed diagram, I did not do it!
- But the "culto" (Antoine G) who did it with his "fully integrated" system, he's wrong, then?!? ...

A tractor application (which I have never used) and a car do not necessarily work the same. In car use I don't feel it well that's all.

No, the catalytic converters do not break the particles, it rather favors such or such chemical reactions which results in the transformation of certain gases and the formation of a whole panoply of particles of different sizes, and different downstream upstream. The catalytic converter is only a link in the production of particles between the fuel oil in the tank and the death that comes out of the silencer.

- Well in any case, there are reports, scientific precisely, which tend to prove that the particles which leave a catalytic converter sink much more in the lungs because they are much finer!

Check out the link below, including the conclusion if you're in a hurry. The catalytic converter is not the only culprit far from it ...
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 5zrr84.pdf

- If you don't approve the tissue test, then why here, Did Capt-Maloche do it!? ...

This is a forum here, what would it be chi..t to be all always in agreement , Captain likes the handkerchief, so much the better for him .... that doesn't prevent adding gasoline to the Gasol can go the right way (less pollution and less consumption).

In the different posts, between Quanthomme and Econologie, you will find everything and its opposite. When you will have read / evaluated a certain number of them you will see more easily which are the words which seem the most bizarre / fanciful / factual / documented / close to "the truth" ....

To return to your bubbler, inevitably you will have to make choices that will be compromises, the perfect stuff ..... chai not if it exists. We give you some leads / generalities drawn from our experiences, after when you are in front of your engine with its congestion problems and your various constraints, you are better placed than us to evaluate certain parameters.

[Other]

Hello

- The "problem" of a system heated by water from the engine is that it is slower ... And for short trips (as I do at home), it's not the joy !

For short routes 10 to 15 km the performance of the water doping system and poor even a catalyst system only becomes operational when it has reached a certain temperature.
at cold temperatures it is difficult to make a reactor work well even by making the engine swallow hot air around the exhaust.
In summer the engine water reaches its temperature after 4 to 5km and the water doping stabilizes after 15km
I have a water reheating system, for frying oil in summer after 3 km of driving the oil at the outlet of the exchanger reaches around 60c, it's fast given the large flow on the return tank, then heating a 3 liters of water from a bubbler is a trifle.

It is always a question of compromise, if you only aim for depolution it is a high water vapor ratio, if you only aim for economy it is a lower water ratio, if you work for frying oil has a higher water ratio than with diesel.
When the temperature of the water in the bubbler is not as critical at a few degrees, there is a minimum and a maximum which is close to the temperature of the LDR
Some work with a room temperature water nebulizer, other a small carburetor of reduced water temperature model under the hood (even heated to 90c is less good.) Other function with a less bulky steam generator, speed other start-up with bulldozers is heated exhaust most often the easiest way to live in the long term heat with LDR.
Look at the kits for sale you will get an idea of ​​the temperatures they can reach in their bubbler

If you look at the Qand'home assemblies, the most beautiful assembly is that of the Deutz tractor while stainless steel bubbler integrated the first which made a vertical assembly.
Another Deutz tractor, more rustic in steel mounting, announces that it sometimes boils in its bubbler, however it is functional (in a GV this also boils but there is a fog in the duct which feeds the reactor and each has a recipe, a small amount of air added with this vapor which in the end all looks like a fogger.)
There is not just Antoine's montage that you have to watch
For the Antoine tractor when it specifies an increase in exhaust temperature it is mainly due to the strangulation it does on the intake to force the engine to pull into the reactor (throttles a diesel without a reactor, and measures exhaust with equal load) the throttling has limits on a car engine you are penalized on the maximum power of the engine.

At the beginning we make an assembly we think that everything will be functional without taking care of it, after a year of use we realize all the faults and the maintenance that it requires, the following assembly becomes simpler, just a cleaning the reactor and the pipes every year.
It becomes overwhelming to do a long consumption test and the system is partially blocked midway.
So you sacrifice a little bit of performance, to have something that works without having the hood open at all 100km.
when you make a trip of 400km with your family they stop at the numerous stops for verification if the system works.

Andre

[RV-P]

There is not just Antoine's montage that you have to watch

- Exactly: I looked at several montages, including yours on the "Pantone process: doping with water or Pantone engine" thread! But Antoine G is the one who INTRODUCED the system in France with the bubbling of water! What does he say?

It is only a few days later, wanting to tackle the adaptation on one of his tractors that he comes to Antoine a genius intuition, which he exposes to us as well as to Michel.

What an idea ?

First of all : keep the tractor engine in its entirety to be able to experiment with or without the system.

Then, pass only very fine droplets of water through the reactor and no longer connect the reactor to the engine intake, but bring what comes out of the reactor into the air filter by sealing it (around 2/3) to force the engine to "snort" the contents of the engine.

And in chorus, we said to him: "Why not, anyway we must try, in our opinion there is no risk."

- A number appeals to me: 2/3! It is the proportion of what leaves the reactor compared to the ambient air supply. Why not "go" on this basis? As far as I know: a Tractor Diesel and a Car Diesel, especially modern Diesel, look "a bit" alike, right!? ...
- And the system introduced by Antoine, even if it has been modified since, does NOT change the configuration of the engine and that is important!
- In the articles, there are the partisans of "it shouldn't boil" and "it can boil"! ... I had introduced (maybe wrongly?) A temperature regulation starting from the base that "it must not boil", but if, according to your experiments you say that "it can boil", it "suffices" to remove the temperature regulation from "my" bubbler project !!! Moreover, according to the diagram published for Antoine's bubbler, it is obvious that at the end, "it will boil", especially if the temperature which leaves the reactor can be HIGHER than the temperature of the gas. exhaust (which would explain the ovalization of the thread of one of the exits that I saw on the wire mentioned above!?)!
- And if it ever really worked and the exhaust gases no longer clog the bubbler!? ...
- I told you: I give leads, nothing more!

[Flytox]

... but get what comes out of the reactor into the air filter by closing it [/ b] (about at 2/3) to force the engine to "snort" the contents of the reactor .....

- A number appeals to me: 2/3! It is the proportion of what leaves the reactor compared to the ambient air supply. Why not "go" on this basis?

From what I understood, 2/3 is not the proportion of what goes into the reactor, it is an order of magnitude of the passage section that it clogs in the air filter to increase the vacuum in the reactor.

2/3 is a starting point for testing, then you will need more or less shutter on your engine (or a larger or smaller venturi). The proportion of gases that pass through the original circuit or through the AC reactor circuit depends, among other things, on the pressure drop of the different conduits (upstream / downstream pressure, diameter, length, elbows, water temperature, steam etc ...)

- In the articles, there are the partisans of "it shouldn't boil" and "it can boil"! ... I had introduced (maybe wrongly?) A temperature regulation starting from the base that "it must not boil", but if, according to your experiments you say that "it can boil", it "suffices" to remove the temperature regulation from "my" bubbler project !!! Moreover, according to the diagram published for Antoine's bubbler, it is obvious that at the end, "it will boil", ...

When 2 assemblies differ by a whole bunch of dimensional physical parameters, it is very difficult to compare ... and one can very well find the 2 which function whereas only one end.
What seems important to me when possible is to have the means to change the heating power to explore the 2 solutions.

.... especially if the temperature leaving the reactor can be HIGHER than the temperature of the exhaust gases ...

If you talk about Gillier Pantone, can you tell us where you found this? At maxi chui arrived at around 250 ° for the steam at the outlet of the reactor, while some Diesel with the cleat rise to 750 ° at the exhaust.

- And if it ever really worked and the exhaust gases no longer clog the bubbler!? ...

It will be not bad, sign that the production of soot will be in free fall Finally, it may not be the only criterion, for example, the "large" visible particles should not be replaced by "tiny" invisible but infinitely more dangerous for health.