Request for information: 12kW electric motor on battery

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
Alain G
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by Alain G » 07/05/10, 23:45

dedeleco wrote:It gives AC three-phase AC and so it must be straightened by a bridge of three-phase power diodes and some capacitors if not surprised !!!!!
I repeat myself even to ramble:
In addition saw the unknowns in the adaptation to batteries (requires good practical technical knowledge) and the risk of destruction during the test of power, fire and electrocution, and therefore of loss of money


It's not three-phase but single-phase!

I suggested this generator for the simple reason that we can vary the voltage with the excitement to bring it back to that of the motor controller!

By adding some power diodes and some capacitors we convert the alternating current into direct current as in a simple power supply!
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 08/05/10, 01:14

The manufacturer's pdf gives all three phase, single phase, etc. .. and the exact single-phase model is hard to find, but okay for
Adding some power diodes and some capacitors converts the alternating current into direct current as in a simple power supply

easy for a specialist with
good practical technical knowledge) and the risk of destruction during power element, fire and electrocution testing

who will stay alive without burning the diodes but otherwise I doubt for someone without any electrical power experience (cool the diodes correctly on radiator, etc ..!).
At a minimum, he must make a few training assemblies at lower power, before!
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info Request




by Blackberry » 08/05/10, 12:21

hi alain thank you for your information the 106 electric.
I have some questions to ask you about the batteries.
if I understand correctly the 106 is equipped with 20 blocks of 6v in series which gives 120 v to make it work. I can not know the capacity in amp that these batteries have.
the automnomie of this vehicle with these 20 blocks is 70km if I am not mistaken? how long would it take for a generator to charge the 20 batteries if there is not the possibility to have charging stations or plugs when you are away from home.
Can the batteries be recharged at the same time as you run if you start up the onboard generator set?
conventional traction batteries are less efficient than nickel cadmium batteries because it contains less energy - suppose my nickel cadmium batteries are hs and I want to put conventional traction batteries, how many batteries I should be aware that a battery as I saw on this site http://www.ac2batteries.fr/-c-36.html
thank you to enlighten me.

ps: there is no shame in wanting to understand things ........
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by dedeleco » 08/05/10, 15:51

You have to see the characteristics of the traction batteries
http://www.ac2batteries.fr/-c-36.html
This site does not give no indication on these batteries and their speed of discharge, recharge, guarantee one year, weight, insufficient !!!
A priori we generally say 1 / 10 recharge current so the capacity 10 hours and 1 / 10 cap current!
At the same use !!
If we want what last very long !!!!
For 120V you need 10 batteries in series (sic) !!
With 130Ah is 13A running current for ten hours.
So for 130A of current with 120V (is 120x130KW), it is necessary 10x10 = 100 BATTERIES, and thus weight more than the ton !!!
Poor little car!
Unless you sacrifice the life of the batteries !!
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I Citro
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Re: request for info




by I Citro » 08/05/10, 20:02

lamure wrote:... if I understand correctly the 106 is equipped with 20 blocks of 6v in series which gives 120 v to make it work. I can not know the capacity in amp that these batteries have.
SAFT STM5 blocks have a capacity of 100Ah, which is an embedded theoretical capacity of 12kWh. These blocks are capable of delivering 200A for a short time and have a very useful liquid cooling.
At the end of charging, the voltage delivered by the battery is of the order of 140V
lamure wrote:the automnomie of this vehicle with these 20 blocks is 70km if I am not mistaken? how long would it take for a generator to charge the 20 batteries if there is not the possibility to have charging stations or plugs when you are away from home.
I have already answered above:
It depends on the power of the charging terminals in Amperes. we distinguish 3 types of loads:
    1 / Normal charge 16A in 230V with the on-board charger
    2 / Semi-rapid charge 32A on external terminal directly feeding the 106 batteries and communicating with the vehicle electronics.
    3 / 63A fast charging on external terminal and working like the previous one but only charging the batteries to 90% to preserve their longevity.
We have on Bordeaux and Agglomeration 200 charging terminals in service including a dozen 63A fast charge.
- The fast charge makes it possible to recover 2km of autonomy per minute of charge.
- The standard load provides 3,2kW per hour or 10km of autonomy for 20 minutes of charge.
lamure wrote:Can the batteries be recharged at the same time as you run if you start up the onboard generator set?
The answer is NOT, the computer prohibits the running and same time as the load in 16A via the on-board charger. Anyway, as I wrote above, it has little interest, because the onboard charger provides too little energy (enough to drive at 30kmh) and still requires a generator of more than 3,6kW ...
lamure wrote:Conventional traction batteries are less efficient than nickel cadmium batteries because they contain less energy. Suppose my nickel cadmium batteries are hs and I want to put conventional traction batteries, how many batteries should I put?
I am part of an association that keeps a technological watch on the issue and keeps abreast of the various experiments underway on the issue. Some experiments take place and are even marketed in Lithium, others are lead-gel, others still NiMh ... I can not describe them here.
:?
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Re: request for info




by Alain G » 09/05/10, 02:36

lamure wrote:hi alain thank you for your information the 106 electric.
I have some questions to ask you about the batteries.
if I understand correctly the 106 is equipped with 20 blocks of 6v in series which gives 120 v to make it work. I can not know the capacity in amp that these batteries have.
the automnomie of this vehicle with these 20 blocks is 70km if I am not mistaken? how long would it take for a generator to charge the 20 batteries if there is not the possibility to have charging stations or plugs when you are away from home.
Can the batteries be recharged at the same time as you run if you start up the onboard generator set?
conventional traction batteries are less efficient than nickel cadmium batteries because it contains less energy - suppose my nickel cadmium batteries are hs and I want to put conventional traction batteries, how many batteries I should be aware that a battery as I saw on this site http://www.ac2batteries.fr/-c-36.html
thank you to enlighten me.

ps: there is no shame in wanting to understand things ........


Hi Lamure!

It is better to use batteries of the same power as the original ones because the motor controller is adjusted for the amperage provided by these batteries!

I suggest gel batteries that are more durable than conventional liquid acid, the only flaw is their slow charging.

Now you have to see the space 10 batteries will take 100 amps in your car, the ideal would be a small trailer towed by the car that contains the generator to keep the interior space available and the addition of a géné in the trunk asks to modify the car and I do not advise at all this modification because you will not pass the inspection!

Whatever you say, yes you can charge your car while driving but it is simply necessary to feed the batteries directly without going through the charger built into your vehicle, the calculator will not take into account the recharge and interpret it as a request less supported as if you were descending a dimension continually! If it creates error messages and you stop and put the key in the Stop position then you start the generator and you resume the use of the car that sees only fire!
:D
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thank you alain




by Blackberry » 09/05/10, 10:23

here is the principle that I would use to avoid changing my vehicle, ie attach a small trailer that could support 10 batteries and a generator.
Tell me about the batteries, do you know a site that sells 6volts gel batteries? and I would like to know how much ampere does the current batteries on the 106 electric because if I put 10 12v gel batteries in series it will do well 120v no? and would automnomy be less than with nickel cadmium batteries? if so how much I could do with 10 batteries and a generator on board.
if in the case I would take my group only to recharge my batteries, what power this group will have and how long I can recharge my batteries.
thank you alain for all this information.
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Alain G
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Re: thank you alain




by Alain G » 09/05/10, 15:23

lamure wrote:here is the principle that I would use to avoid changing my vehicle, ie attach a small trailer that could support 10 batteries and a generator.
Tell me about the batteries, do you know a site that sells 6volts gel batteries? and I would like to know how much ampere does the current batteries on the 106 electric because if I put 10 12v gel batteries in series it will do well 120v no? and would automnomy be less than with nickel cadmium batteries? if so how much I could do with 10 batteries and a generator on board.
if in the case I would take my group only to recharge my batteries, what power this group will have and how long I can recharge my batteries.
thank you alain for all this information.


Hi Lamure!

The weight of such a trailer between 700 and 900 kg will require the brakes on the trailer and the autonomy is difficult to predict without doing the tests beforehand.

The generator must be as economical as possible and should only be used to increase the autonomy! Unless you feed it to the vegetable oil that costs you almost nothing!

It is better not to charge the batteries too quickly because they will degrade too quickly! The ideal is to use the gen by rolling if the oil returns to you at a price lower than the cost of the network!

It is difficult for me to refer you batteries, the suppliers will be able to better pass on your needs to you and the gels are no longer necessary if you drag them in a trailer!

Is the vehicle intended to tow a trailer?
:|
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I Citro
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Re: request for info




by I Citro » 09/05/10, 16:29

Alain G wrote:Now you have to see the space 10 batteries will take 100 amps in your car, the ideal would be a small trailer towed by the car that contains the generator to keep the interior space available and the addition of a géné in the trunk asks to modify the car and I do not advise at all this modification because you will not pass the inspection!
This has already been done, I have seen some pictures of lead-gel editing.
Regarding the trailer, the 106 electric (and all Peugeot Citroën and Renault electric vehicles of this generation) are not approved for towing, and this for several reasons:
    1 / The engine power is insufficient.
    2 / The chassis modified to receive the battery trays and does not allow the assembly of the hitches of the equivalent thermal models
    3 / The registration certificate clearly states that the vehicle is not approved for towing ...
Alain G wrote:Whatever you say, yes you can charge your car while driving but it is simply necessary to feed the batteries directly without going through the charger built into your vehicle, the calculator will not take into account the recharge and interpret it as a request less supported as if you were descending a dimension continually! If it creates error messages and you stop and put the key in the Stop position then you start the generator and you resume the use of the car that sees only fire!
Ben of course. : Lol:
The ECU that manages the operation of an electrical 106 is a modular unit ... If you cut it, you can not use the car unless you invest in a second engine controller and you install a second electrical circuit in the car (beam, accelerator pedal ...)
A Prius will come back cheaper soon, and you're sure she'll roll ... :?
I do not say that to discourage you but explain that you want to make an airbus and put a moped engine ... You will have the budget of an airbus and the performance of a wheelchair for disabled.
:?
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Alain G
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by Alain G » 09/05/10, 17:02

Citro wrote:
Ben of course. Laughing
The ECU that manages the operation of an electrical 106 is a modular unit ... If you cut it, you can not use the car unless you invest in a second engine controller and you install a second electrical circuit in the car (beam, accelerator pedal ...)


Citrus

You leave the batteries connected and you use the gene in parralel directly on the batteries, there is no break and no reason that it does not work!
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