thermal storage car engine for ECS

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fabio.gel
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thermal storage car engine for ECS




by fabio.gel » 17/12/15, 18:42

Hello

As you know the performance of a car with thermal engine is far from terrible, it heats more than it advances : Cry:
Why not install a water tank in the trunk of the car with:
- a first exchanger linked to the automotive cooling system.
- a second exchanger connectable to an external storage tank (domestic hot water tank).

How it works ?

I drive, the trunk balloon rises in temperature.
I arrive at my accommodation, I plug in my domestic hot water tank.
I transfer the calories.

See:
The volume of water for weight balance and overconsumption.
Travel time depending on the volume to be heated.
Maximum temperature reached in the boot tank.

Surely an idea to the c ... or already mentioned.

Fabio
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by Obamot » 17/12/15, 19:33

Excellent, I vote 10/10 for the idea.

Well, you have to see if it's worth it to transport a small tank of heat transfer fluid in the trunk, and then you also have to create a vacuum valve on the vehicle side and a drain pipe connected to a pipe going to the boiler of the DHW. .. there is pressure in there! There is also a heat exchanger in the house. And finally, you have to create a safe system which fills the cooling circuit again with coolant without the installation of an air bubble (otherwise the cooling of the engine block will not be good.)

I had already thought of that to heat lunch in a bain marie, in a stainless steel compartment provided for this purpose in the engine block : Mrgreen:
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by Ahmed » 17/12/15, 19:48

Warming up your snack near the engine block is easy (just avoid contamination and drive long enough), for the rest, in my opinion, it leads directly to the gas plant for more than modest recovery ...
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by fabio.gel » 17/12/15, 20:44

Ahmed wrote:Warming up your snack near the engine block is easy (just avoid contamination and drive long enough), for the rest, in my opinion, it leads directly to the gas plant for more than modest recovery ...


In terms of a gas factory, the engineers at Jaguar know so much ^^

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by Ahmed » 17/12/15, 20:52

Don't take it badly, this is just my opinion and I don't judge you in any way ...

I consider that when I have ten ideas, if there is a good one left after sorting, it's a very good score!
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by chatelot16 » 17/12/15, 21:59

to store heat, you need a certain weight of water, and to transport this weight of water it increases the energy consumption of the car ... will there be a benefit? I'm afraid not

but it deserves to make a calculation!
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by simplino » 18/12/15, 02:57

Calculation for college: water going from 20 to 80 ° C demand
4,18x60 = 250,8KJ / liter or dividing by 3600 seconds 69Wh / liter and 69KWh / m3 of water to heat !!
So a car developing 17,2KW of mechanical power for one hour with an efficiency of 20% (typical like men pedaling), gives off 4 times more heat, i.e. these 69KWh of heat in one hour, and therefore could heat a ton of 1m3 of water to carry around for each hour on the road !!
Every quarter of an hour it would be necessary to stop to fill a water heater on the road and to recharge in cold water !!

Difficult because a car throws into the air full of waste heat !!

Exercise that reveals our waste !!
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by Obamot » 18/12/15, 05:43

Seen from another angle ... just:
1) fill up with a 330l tank, 20 or 1/2 minutes before arriving at the destination, to end up with it brought to 80 ° C,
2) so no need to transport all this mass during the entire journey. It'll save fuel.
3) the mains water is around 9 ° C at the moment, so the water at 80 ° C should allow this water to be heated by mixing, to provide 1000l of water at a temperature of around 33 ° C total.

80 ° C -9 ° C = 71 ° C / 3 = 23,7 ° C + 9 ° C = 32,7 ° C
(Just lower to 900l to increase the temperature at all ...)

4) Possibly with Madame's car, it could be 2 liters at 000 ° C.

5) That's enough to fill 2 baths (but we only use half full to take a bath and above all we can take showers ...)

6) Where it can become interesting is not to reject the used water before having taken the temperature it contains and "upgrading" it, for example with a water-water heat pump that trains with a COP of 2,5 at night in the middle of winter ...

It could improve the ordinary a little ... How much can a heat pump of 2 liters of water brought to 000 ° C? We should arrive at a COP ~ 33, but how long before it reaches 15?

My calculation shouldn't be super fair (I don't pretend it is, please correct it) but it's just to give an idea. In fact it would be necessary to think the thing "in a global system" of magnitude of eXergie. It can drastically become much more interesting, this "contribution", if we have to do with a passive house!
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by fabio.gel » 18/12/15, 07:19

Ahmed wrote:Don't take it badly, this is just my opinion and I don't judge you in any way ...

I consider that when I have ten ideas, if there is a good one left after sorting, it's a very good score!


Don't worry Ahmed my philosophy is to get things done (try to save before producing something new) so any critical information that gets things done is good to take ^^.
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by lilian07 » 18/12/15, 10:16

Hello,
For my part I think it's a good idea to dig ...
I had thought about it for a while but as Ahmed so aptly mentions ... there is a delta between ideas and those that are viable.
To get into concrete and try to help you ...
The energy lost is colossal and represents much more energy than all the renewable energies of the moment ... example for a daily journey we speak here: 330l brought to 80 ° (quote Obamot) for 20 minutes of journey for a small vehicle.

In addition it represents the majority of the population and there is the same amount summer and winter (persistence of energy ...)

Finally the amount of water transported is not so important, it should optimize instead because instead of the trunk is still important / see condemn a back seat
I think that the amount of energy lost by being overweight is negligible… on the one hand we have E = mgh (for the potential energy to be varied than in the case of ascents, the case of descents comes to help traction so if we start from point A to return to point A and if we neglect the additional support on the wheels we do not lose much ....) another we have 300l at 80 ° (using 50 °) or the equivalent of a drop of 6000m mounted with a vehicle of one ton.
To this is added the quantity of hot mass of the engine and its water….
There are other constraints to evaluate but it's not bad as an idea:
Technically, we should try to achieve this with cars of a certain age (10 years) rather sedan and tried to "plug" on the radiator hose in bypass.
We could possibly test to put a quick hydraulic plug fixed on the car (going out in front of the grille discreetly) t and have the same thing on the house side (small DIY).
A small switch on the house side activating the circulation of water for a few minutes to exchange in the DHW tank or heating buffer tank in winter.
In some habitat configuration I think it is simple to perform ....
To study finely because the energy used is colossal.
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