thermal storage car engine for ECS

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
raymon
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by raymon » 18/12/15, 18:44

If the tank was filled with oil lighter than salt we could go up to 180 degrees and divide the weight by 2. The oil should of course be heated by the exhaust. The oil via an exchanger would heat the water by the House.
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by Obamot » 18/12/15, 18:50

Image Image Image

And / or an extended and circulating circuit of part of the engine oil? But this can only reach 130 ° C
On the other hand, the temperature of the exhaust gases taken at the collector can be of the order of 300°C :!:
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by lilian07 » 18/12/15, 19:11

You should know that the exhaust system sees 30% of the petroleum energy consumed pass and the temperatures are much higher than the 90 ° of the water circuit .... in summary 1/3 of energy for traction ... 1/3 of energy for the 85 ° cooling water circuit and 1/3 of energy through the exhaust to much more than 250 ° ... enough to have a lot of possibilities ... .
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by chatelot16 » 18/12/15, 19:53

there is a simpler solution to take advantage of the heat to heat your house

plug-in hybrid car, and generator with cogeneration ... we charge the car battery with the cogeneration group so we take advantage of the heat with a system that can be heavy and efficient since it is fixed and that are weight-free not

alas it is currently useless: if you have a plug-in hybrid car it is better to charge it with EDF electricity ... no diesel generator can make electricity cheaper than EDF, even counting the heat recovery

on the other hand it is possible to make cheaper than EDF with an internal combustion engine and a wood gasifier but still the gas plant

so to do what we can with the available equipment, rechargeable hybrid, charged by edf

to make a small gain easy without a real hybrid car: connect a battery charger when the car is in the garage (a good charger with regulator, not a battery slayer), and cut the alternator of the car, to save petrol ... reconnect the alternator only if you plan to drive for too long without going home
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by Christophe » 18/12/15, 20:35

chatelot16 wrote:no diesel generator can make electricity cheaper than edf, even counting the heat recovery


1) Currently with the price of fuel oil at 0.5 € it is "profitable" ... even in France where the price per kWh is low!

1L of fuel oil = 10 kWh of raw energy

Well-studied cogeneration = 80% calorie recovery

Average diesel yield = 33%, i.e. 67% of thermal losses, of which 67 * 0.8 = 54% are recoverable in cogé.

So we have for 1L of fuel oil at 0.5 €:
3.3 kWh of electricity = 3.3 * 0.15 € / kWh = 0.495 €
5.4 kWh of heat = around 0.25 €

So it's interesting now ... but obviously the fuel oil is low (or expensive electricity) ...

2) Otherwise to resume the subject of this subject (I already thought about it years ago without really developing because I quickly abandoned the idea).

Thermal storage by water is far too expensive in mass in a vehicle (and water is already one of the most favorable elements !!) ... if you have to be overweight 300kg to recover the equivalent of 1 or 2 L of fuel every day I do not think that profitable because these 300kg must move them!

Table corner calculation:

300 L of water with 40 ° cooling delta (which is already not bad since the heating or sanitary water must be around 40 ° C therefore storage at 80 ° C) contains an energy of:

300 * 4.18 * 40 = 50 MJ or 1.2 L of fuel ...

Optionally, start on a phase change material which can be more interesting depending on the melting temperature, see for example: https://www.econologie.com/forums/materiaux- ... 11286.html

This could be an alternative that would allow mass and stored energy to be reconciled ...

Or recover the calories from the engine block ... which should approach 150 to 200L equivalent of water ... and do not require overweight on board! There may be something to do ... but it's not won (you need a plate heat exchanger, 2 circulation pumps ... to gain the equivalent of 1L of fuel per day? Yes why not ... but you also need a garage to do this and when the car is in the garage it already "heats" the house indirectly without going through such a system ... in short, not won what!)
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Thanks for the lighting




by fabio.gel » 18/12/15, 20:50

Thank you for your information.

The problem of the body of water is therefore very present.
The engines should heat up less ...
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by Christophe » 18/12/15, 20:51

raymon wrote:If the tank was filled with oil lighter than salt we could go up to 180 degrees and divide the weight by 2. The oil should of course be heated by the exhaust. The oil via an exchanger would heat the water by the House.


No because the heat capacity of the oil is lower than water .... of the order of half ... so 1L of oil at 180 ° cools by 100 ° C is the same thing as '1L of water at 90 ° cools by 50 ° C (and at 180 ° C there are many more losses and you will hardly have them on a car ...)

Water is the most interesting element for storing and transporting heat ... only sodium is better (in "general public" material) ...

Ah no, after verification, the H2 is much better! https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacit%C ... e_massique

I didn't know this! 1 kg of H2 in gas form is equivalent to 3.4kg of water! And H2 can be easily obtained ... storing it sustainably is even different ...
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Re: Thanks for the lighting




by Christophe » 18/12/15, 20:52

fabio.gel wrote:Thank you for your information.

The problem of the body of water is therefore very present.
The engines should heat up less ...


Oh yes...

Oh no they should heat up more :)

If we had 500 ° C we could store superheated steam! There it becomes nice : Cheesy:
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fabio.gel
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On Christophe's advice




by fabio.gel » 18/12/15, 20:57

On Christophe's advice, I replaced the water with hydrogen.

See the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOQ2wOdaJRQ

: Mrgreen:
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by Obamot » 18/12/15, 21:01

hey hey, yes that's the problem of dihydrogen, it's: BAAAAOOOOUUUM.
Image

You edited on H2 but what you said was even better than you think, 5kg of dihydrogen = 1 full of gasoline ...!

The Toyota Mirai (and ditto at Honda) transforms the dihydrogen in the tank into electrical energy on demand.

But how do you get dihydrogen?
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