Converting a car engine for stationary use

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dede2002
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Converting a car engine for stationary use




by dede2002 » 23/10/13, 21:06

Hello,

You can recycle a car engine for various uses, generators, pumps, etc ...

This is often free materials, scrap mills no longer keep up ...

The petrol engine adapts easily to all gases, and it is often used in cogeneration (winter).

I think there would be a means to improve the thermal efficiency at low cost because these engines are designed to have a great power.

In stationary use there is no need of a good power / weight ratio and a fixed regime is used (3000 rev / min for example.)

By doubling the compression ratio, and by throttling intake, we would have more relaxation and less loss to the exhaust, as with the Atkinson cycle.

Do you have any other ideas? And experiences to share?
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by chatelot16 » 23/10/13, 21:50

the real atkinson engine has a rather special mechanics: a crankshaft that does not directly control the piston, but goes through a return lever that moves the piston down to the 2 end of the race

in a crankshaft revolution the piston goes down 2 times and can be easily lowered to 2 different height

has allowed to make an engine with an intake race shorter than the race for relaxation

so small yield improvement that was not smashing for a complicated mechanics

the existence of this engine was shown to me on the forum futura science ... I'll put a link when I find it

the current version is atkinson miller, with a normal crankshaft, and just a modified valve opening cycle to waste some of the compression

small ameloiration of output, but big decrease of power

limited improvement because when the prolonged relaxation reaches the atmospheric pressure the gas is still very hot and carries a lot of heat to the exhaust

1er inconvenient of the atkinson miller: this end of relaxation is done at low pressure: no need to use for that a solid piston to resist the explosion: it is better to finish the relaxation in another system adapted to the low pressure: turbine or large light piston

if we do the relaxation by something else, we must also start compression by something else: why not turbine?

and by studying the cycle of the engine we see that it would be useful to cool the beginning of compression

by cooling the beginning of compression, we consume less energy for tablet, we give the main piston already compressed and cold air: this main piston gives more power ... and with the additional relaxation in another turbine finished the cycle almost cold

Turbine expansion provides a much greater energy than what is needed for a tablet, so we can put 2 turbine: the first one that turns the compressor ... the 2eme that provides useful mechanical energy

it's already invented: turbocompound truck engine: we get a yield close to 50%

it is also used in generator set: see group doc schnell a biogas

there are already links the top on this forum ... I will find them

Turbocharger turbine efficiency is not very good: it could be done even better by making this compression and this separation separated by piston: it would be very effective for small power: the turbo being more profitable for power superior to 100ch

the ideal engine would be of the 1 small cylinder type for the explosion and 2 the larger cylinder for the beginning of compression and the end of relaxation

the first cylinder for compression has no interest in being in the same block: it must be as cold as possible: no interest in putting it at the hot temperature of the main cylinder: it is finally a regular air compressor

the additional expansion cylinder must be integrated in the main block to be warm and not to condense the acid fumes
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by Flytox » 23/10/13, 22:07

Hello Dede2002

There must be several post that deal with similar topics on the site.

The gasoline engine easily adapts to all gases, and it is often used in cogeneration (winter).


The word easily bothers me a bit. Some transformations are "a little" heavy (Price / material / time / tests etc ...). Do you have any idea of ​​the exact use and the gas available?

I think there would be a means to improve the thermal efficiency at low cost because these engines are designed to have a great power.

In stationary use there is no need of a good power / weight ratio and a fixed regime is used (3000 rev / min for example.)

By doubling the compression ratio, and by throttling intake, we would have more relaxation and less loss to the exhaust, as with the Atkinson cycle.


To double the volumetric ratio, seems to me a little ambitious without big modifications of the cylinder head and or pistons (and for what gas?). For the strangulation of admission, can you explain the interest?
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by chatelot16 » 23/10/13, 22:07

I had the intension to use a fixed engine cheap car engine ... it was good at the time of engine renault 4 or other engine has side cam shaft

with the camshaft motor in mind it is sadder: the life of the belt is limited, and even more limited in a fixed engine less well ventilated than on vehicle

the industrial engine generator and public works machine are always a side camshaft ... never timing belt

alas the good old simple gasoline engine are more and more rare in cases ... it becomes collector's item

Another problem of motor car: it is too complicated and the spare parts are too expensive: good to do a DIY with what we have but too expensive to rely on to do more

my current preference is to make everything from scratch, smaller than a car engine ... still recovering a lot of room on a classic engine like the GX200 honda and its Chinese copy 6,5ch a 4000 t / mn

Another reason to make a special design: the main cylinder with the compression prealable by another cylinder takes full mouth! it takes much more solid than a regular gasoline engine
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Cogeneration group




by beaver faithful » 23/10/13, 23:28

Hello,

I just bought a group to do cogeneration and if possible trigeneration.
It is a group with Lombardini engine type LDW1503, 3 cylinders, 1500 cm3, 1500 rpm and water cooled.
There are occasionally to sell on the coincoin.
It is coupled to a generator of 12kw in 380v three-phase.
This is a group that shot about 600h during his first service in the French army.
Having already a little experience in the use of cooking oil, I intend to run it with this fuel.

Cogeneration will be done by removing the existing radiator and passing the engine coolant through two tanks of 2660L capacity per tank.

By cons I'm looking for a way to trigeneration by recovering the calories from the exhaust gases burnt.
I saw that marine engines have a water exchanger incorporated into the exhaust manifold.
I would like to ride an exchanger of this type.
I do not know yet if Lombardini for his marine division has manufactured this type of exchanger for this type of engine, otherwise I wonder if I can not make me an item of this type.
If any of you can inform me on this subject, he will be welcome.
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by chatelot16 » 23/10/13, 23:58

the advantage of the heat recovery directly in the exhaust manifold is to remove any hot spot

for easy realization it is better to keep the original exhaust pipe and put the recuperator further on the exhaust pipe

all the solutions are possible exactly as to recover the heat of the smoke of a stove ... it is simply necessary that it is strong enough to be used as an exhaust silencer

if you leave the casting pot a large part of the heat is lost in the air around the pot: it is better that the recuperator completely replaces the pot

I sometimes used a small steel oil boiler as an exhaust pipe
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by chatelot16 » 24/10/13, 02:37

a reduced model of atkinson engine on another forum
http://www.usinages.com/modelisme/moteu ... 59823.html

the real atkinson! not the atkinson miller

another remark: it does not matter to double the volumetric ratio of a car engine if at the same time we reduce the filling of the cylinder by changing the cycle of the valve

we will have the same maximum pressure, so no risk of breakage, but just a better relaxation so better performance
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by 1360 » 24/10/13, 08:09

chatelot16 wrote:with the camshaft motor in mind it is sadder: the life of the belt is limited, and even more limited in a fixed engine less well ventilated than on vehicle


Hello,

There are still a lot of overhead cam engines that have distribution chains that hold the life of the engine (BMW, Mercedes, Opel, Peugeot, ...).

For the timing belts, their service life has been considerably increased: 240000 km or 10 years at Peugeot, for example ...

A+
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by Macro » 24/10/13, 09:18

the XUD xNUMX atmo from psa is used in stationary for ages ... and even in marine with ridiculous consos ...
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by jonule » 24/10/13, 09:58

it makes me think I have an XUD stationary at my mechanic (ex 405) apparently the engine is "easily" removed by just removing the engine cradle ...
I just wonder if for a stationary use it is better not to remove the turbo (it is only disconnect the tube of the intercooler to the PI)?

I also think of a boiler, since it is said that ~ 70% of its loss is in heat .... from there to use it as a boiler there is a step ?!

faithful castor wrote:Cogeneration will be done by removing the existing radiator and passing the engine coolant through two tanks of 2660L capacity per tank.

By cons I'm looking for a way to trigeneration by recovering the calories from the exhaust gases burnt.
I saw that marine engines have a water exchanger incorporated into the exhaust manifold.
I would like to ride an exchanger of this type.


you can keep the existing radiator by dipping it directly into the tank, you can even add several auto radiators of the case ..

: Idea: for the muffler I imagine that we can pass the gas through the water, even the entire exhaust line, allowing it to dive so that the water does not enter obviously, as a tube that comes from the top and dives in, the gases just waiting to go out and rise to the surface, heating the liquid?

you can also use the cabin radiator and its blower to heat something else, also use a boiler plate heat exchanger to make instantaneous DHW production, etc ...

> obviously there remains ~ 30% of efficiency to be used to charge 12V batteries, or 24V if you put a truck alternator;
an inverter 220V connected to a circuit breaker and you have your 220V at home ...

than happiness the domestic heat engine!
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