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Ahmed
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 23/02/17, 21:57

What seemed interesting in about Florence BurgatThis is firstly the anthropological argument of a desire to assert the animal's expense, on the other hand the questioning, or at least questioning, the importance of hunting in prehistoric man (with big blur that this tag label).
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby Janic » 24/02/17, 09:07

Ahmed hello
What seemed interesting in about Florence Burgat is firstly the anthropological argument of a desire to assert the animal's expense, on the other hand the questioning, or at least questioning, the importance of hunting in the prehistoric man (with big blur that this tag label).

actually this vagueness is pseudo scientific interests used to justify our current behavior in the frame, as blur of evolution.

Florenc Burgat also said:
One of my main thesis is that the institution of the meat diet perpetuates a deadly relationship with animals.

I do not really share that view! Indeed, in certain circumstances such as in some areas where the plants are missing (deserts, glacial regions) meat remains the only available food and I do not believe in a deadly relationship in these circumstances there. Similarly nomadism also requires finding sustenance in products available on the slopes throughout their journey and easiest remaining food on foot.
As against our societies, this is not a deadly relation to animals that are seen, but this is a killing spree substitute the urge to kill, that exists within each of us to: the boss, his spouse walks of life, etc ... and can be discharged by this means. These are the holocausts, genocides, wars which also express the need for release by the death of another.

More interesting this aspect:
It was a banal setting at death without particular cruelty, but something caught my face: I realized that eating meat, I participated in the killing process. Obviously, I had always known! But it's like until then I did was only half-conscious. I ate and even bought meat without thinking. I then took the decision not to be an accomplice. And festive representation of the meat has been replaced in my mind a morbid reality.

There I think is the key to changing habits that are similar to our other animals including ourselves, even if the scientific religio-cultural nickname wants to create a distinction that serves only to justify our spirit of domination over others , calling those other lower, and the same is autoqualifiant higher, making himself judge and jury. It is so ingrained that even you use the formula: "This is on one hand the argument anthropological a desire to assert itself at the expense of the animal, "As heard les non-human animals as if we were not doing part.
This may seem a detail, but that is important because it separates us or not the remains of other animals.
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sen-no-sen
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 24/02/17, 10:47

Ahmed wrote:What seemed interesting in about Florence BurgatThis is firstly the anthropological argument of a desire to assert the animal's expense, on the other hand the questioning, or at least questioning, the importance of hunting in prehistoric man (with big blur that this tag label).


Analysis of Florence Burgat is apparently based on a Freudian approach.
I really struggle to think that people consume the meat to sit their domination with a will (happy?) To chew, digest and defecate an animal .... : roll:
Most people love animals, but their sympathy was quickly short-circuited by their habits (programming ...), causing a phenomenon of cognitive dissonance.
As mentioned JanicThe eating of meat is above all in many parts of the world need food.
In industrialized countries meat product consumption is primarily cultural, and liaise with increasing purchasing power.
This is a phenomenon of imitation of the ruling classes who falls quickly (economic market forces) in the sphere of eating and mass practice.

At the individual level it appears that nowadays the populations of industrialized countries are much more attentive to respect for animals that share the past.
Thus a very large number of citizens are opposed to bullfighting to vivisection or industrial farming.
This has not always been the case, particularly in certain regions where it was customary to throw a goat from the top of a tower, burning alive of the Cub, catching a cat by the tail and throw it against a wall and other abominations ...
Yet his times not so long ago was characterized by a much lower meat consumption to today ...
Therefore one can easily deduce that the barbaric practices of industrial farming, eminently "forgotten" by people, is a consequence of economism and mass imitation of phenomena, implement the economic market *, more than unconscious desires.

Ironically he never was much sympathy for animals that nowadays and never had so many massacres all azimuth (factory farming, vivisection, deforestation, hunting), and there has never been as sport simultaneously obese, never much cooking show and to .... fast foodNever as many green speech and pollution ... which corresponds to the subjectivity phase characterized by cognitive dissonance mass prelude to collapse.




* This is also the same phenomenon is at work in skiing ...
Many people are skiing, not for love of alpine sport, but because it was in their insidiously creep into the brain ...
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Ahmed
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 25/02/17, 12:50

I do not know (not having read the book in question) it is a Freudian approach or just symbolic *, but it is certain that our relationship with the animal remains something difficult due specifically irreducible our animal side, not easy to take (and in transhumanism magnificent bypass strategy).
Of course, I understand your arguments, but I do not think they are in contradiction with about Florence Burgat. The other point that she put forward was uncertainty about meat consumption during the long period of prehistory and, I add, the unfamiliar role of the relationship between hunting and religion.
I think the widespread sympathy for the animals is to be related, like all cognitive dissonance you mention, with specialization: only a small number of people are in contact with the reality of the link between animal and meat. Secondly, we must distinguish between sympathy wave for wildlife which is limited to its most visible elements or glamor (who cares toads, earthworms or snakes?) And domestic animals for which is exhibits sometimes bewildering anthropomorphic projection.

* I find her very pertinent remark about cannibalism.
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby Janic » 25/02/17, 13:08

and, I add, the unfamiliar role of the relationship between hunting and religion.

despite many years of study on the Bible, I never noticed the report, as that teaching course! Can you be more precise ?
For religions other than those that come from this source, I have no opinion of course.
I also wanted to add, rather repeat, about the killings on "animals" that if every consumer had to kill it consumes, vegetarians explode in number abruptly and as we are in the era of agricultural show it seems strange that substantial die are not represented, ie abattoirs and slaughter system on site. : Evil:
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Ahmed
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 25/02/17, 14:00

I spoke of the relation between religion and hunting in prehistoric times, nothing to do, therefore, with the Bible ... Maybe I should have rather talk about religion or religious / sacred practices ...

Ton "it seems strange" is, of course, ironic: I do not see offer to school children to electrocute each pig, or even just a chicken ... The agricultural fair is the exhibition of animals "happy us be useful! "
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby Janic » 25/02/17, 15:04

Ton "it seems strange" is, of course, ironic:
not at all, this is the first degree.
For comparison, the agricultural show presented to children, it's like the story of the beautiful princess and the valiant knight, but that does not speak rules of the lady, sexually transmitted diseases, the pill that promotes cancer, difficult pregnancies, etc ... that is not the enchanting aspect of the first part, but rather the reality.
I can not see offer to school children to electrocute each pig, or even just a chicken ...
This is what was done in the country without this salon that hides the reality ... bloody! [*]
While it would impede any parent, educator, to offer them"To" electrocute "each a salad or even just an apple....
The agricultural fair is the exhibition of animals "happy to be useful to us"!
This is of course ironic! :D
Because these "dear animals" (which have nothing to do medals) will end without any emotion or recognition to the slaughterhouse.

[*] Carnivorous educate their little face the reality of hunting and death for prey assume fully, allowing them to do so. Educators should be happy to prepare the youth for their future role assumed "carnivore" rather than hide them, shameful, Yet they claim to be their biological nature: kill to feed! : Evil:
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby sen-no-sen » 25/02/17, 19:40

Ahmed wrote: The other point that she put forward was uncertainty about meat consumption during the long period of prehistory and, I add, the unfamiliar role of the relationship between hunting and religion.


It does not seem necessary to go that far, the study of primitive tribes shows that meat consumption is a global trend, and this for the food needs of reasons.
Insofar as primitive societies are not dissipative energy, it appears that this is animism which is taxed as a belief structure and the relationship between hunting and animal tended to ritual, mainly for reasons of compliance.
Early primitive societies have understood the concept of death and levies were usually accompanied by a set of rituals to attract the good omens of spirits.
It is difficult to specify the earliest beliefs (there are more than 100 000 years) but they were apparently based on the cult of the dead and the spirits of nature, the first forms of shamanism apparently induced phosphenes (residual images caused by strong light) or psychotropic product consumption favoring "contacts".
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Ahmed
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby Ahmed » 27/02/17, 18:29

Sen-no-sen, you write:
I really struggle to think that people consume the meat to sit their domination with a will (happy?) To chew, digest and defecate an animal .... : roll:

No doubt this can not be assumed consciously, but the success of transhumanist ideas indicate quite clearly the rejection of the animal side of ours and, as the ultimate result, the destruction of the human in favor of the machine. A man "mechanical" Can imagine anything other than a continuation of the performative rationality that animates?
I see a continuity in detestation of nature, animals and making us incarnates her and them. I said that I am referring to the objective aspect of our behavior and not our individual subjectivities ...

Further:
It does not seem necessary to go that far, the study of primitive tribes shows that meat consumption is a global trend, and this need for food purposes.

The trouble is that the childhood of humanity represents a period such that it is presumptuous to rely on the lifestyle of the last primitive societies as we described the recent science of anthropology and to draw relevant conclusions.
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Re: Meat in France and in the world: production, conso ...

Unread Messageby Janic » 27/02/17, 18:40

The trouble is that the childhood of humanity represents a period such that it is presumptuous to rely on the lifestyle of the last primitive societies as we described the recent science of anthropology and to draw relevant conclusions.
effectively! Anthropology relies almost solely on the speech of evolutionism and transhumanism is only an extension through technology substituting for an inadequate and imperfect nature, leading to a kind of immortality "on "which is, moreover, too, that the extension of religious discourse. Tweedledum / Tweedledee! 8)
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