The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.

Warming and Climate Change: causes, consequences, analysis ... Debate on CO2 and other greenhouse gas.
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Exnihiloest
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by Exnihiloest » 13/12/18, 19:00

izentrop wrote:I'll do as with Janic, ignore your comments without a realistic argument.

If I had, I wouldn't have answered your "don't tell us you approve of this physicist's bogus arguments?"

To see tonight on C8 at 21H10 Is the planet (really) screwed up? https://tv-programme.com/la-planete-est ... cumentaire

I read :
"Hurricanes, droughts, floods, gigantic fires, melting ice, the planet is under attack from all sides."
It's wrong. The facts do not show more hurricanes, droughts, floods, gigantic fires than formerly that would be related to the climate, and for that which is related to the man, especially the fires, it is a consequence of the increase of population and mobility.

I quickly stopped watching the video: we see idle assumptions followed by conditionalities, it is at the level of: "if my aunt had any, she could be my concle". Only one point of view is given: we are screwed. It is not a documentary, it is a thesis against the man.
The references to greenpeace, activists who can not expect any objectivity, are a symptom.
"The way greenpeace treats the targets it has chosen can clearly be defined as fascism or religious fundamentalism. Anyone imagining that greenpeace money is spent on the environment is wrong. They travel only in business class, eat in the best restaurants and lead a life of jet-set ecologist. (...) The main reason for prioritizing whales is that it brings in money. "
Bjorn Oekern (former director of greenpeace Norway)
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izentrop
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by izentrop » 14/12/18, 00:15

For Greenpeace I agree, other speakers are also not very clear, this is not a sufficient reason to reject everything.
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by izentrop » 14/12/18, 10:56

Laurent Mermet decrypts the speech of Aurélien Barrau and goes much further by designating the 5 levers that must be operated simultaneously to get by, but with such complexity that since the Rome club 1972, no action has was conducted without weakening one of the levers and thus worsening the situation, contrary to the desired goal.

His speech is a little clearer when he addresses the questions / answers to 1h, when he appears with his jacket.

We can clearly see that the decrease goes against the efficiency of the flows, the reduction of the nuclear power, the sling against the biotechnologies and against the pesticides also.
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by Exnihiloest » 14/12/18, 14:40

izentrop wrote:For Greenpeace I agree, other speakers are also not very clear, this is not a sufficient reason to reject everything.

Yes, trash.
There are limits. If it really is presented as a "documentary", therefore supposed to be neutral, there we are in the Manichean, there is deception on the merchandise.
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by Ahmed » 14/12/18, 16:39

This documentary is only a spectacle: it is without interest ... Some will prefer "The princes of love" to it, but to each its (dis) tastes! : Mrgreen:
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by izentrop » 09/01/19, 20:05

A little video of the excellent Gaël Giraud who in a few minutes is able to give us a global vision of our "little problem". She is 2 and a half years old but is more relevant than ever.
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by izentrop » 06/02/19, 23:25

Excellent summary of the situation ... on the other hand I have trouble with the proposed solution ...
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by izentrop » 04/03/19, 09:52

What is ultimately the carrying capacity of the planet?
We invent stories to hide or disguise reality, the energy transition is one of them.
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by Bardal » 04/03/19, 20:23

izentrop wrote:Excellent summary of the situation ... on the other hand I have trouble with the proposed solution ...


Quite disagree completely with the analysis provided by Patrick Permavillage ... And even less with his conclusion (very simplistic it is true) ...

- the author bases his whole demonstration on an energy shortage (identified with an oil shortage, in a somewhat reductive way it seems to me) which would inevitably lead to a collapse. I believe that he completely confuses the historical phase of "all oil" (all oil, moreover, quite relative) that we have just experienced with a fundamental need of humanity, when this is only one form.

- Remember that the availability of energy today is almost unlimited, and overabundant, if we do not limit ourselves to oil and its peak; coal is today the first fossil fuel used, gas has reserves estimated to be larger than those of oil, renewable energies are infinite on a human scale, nuclear energy leaves millennia of reserves for this which is of the fission (even by multiplying its consumption by 20 or 30), the fusion giving access to an almost infinite duration.

- this story of "peak oïl", hackneyed at leisure by the collapseists, is certainly mathematically unstoppable; but this reasoning is applied without caution to a human world a little more complex and whose initial data are far from being as rigorous as mathematical reasoning: here, no one knows the exact reserves, nor the fluctuations in consumption, and all the possibilities of energy substitutions are forgotten; in such a vague, informal setting, it is imprudent to plan a peak oïl for such and such a date, peak oïl which is moreover likely to take on the appearance of plateaus, or roller coaster, as we can see to the experience. The only thing that can be said is that the oil will eventually dry up, the land being of limited size. I much prefer the concept of criticality developed by the CNRS with regard to various mineral resources, which are also endangered ...

- in any case, if there is a shortage, it will concern, it seems to me, first of all a number of metals and / or more or less rare lands, in critical situation, as well as various essential ores the survival of humanity (phosphates for example), which is at least as urgent to be concerned, rather than that of energy ...

- if it is urgent to leave the carbon energies, it is not because of a hypothetical energy shortage, but because the impact of these carbon energies on the climate is such that it is criminal to 'expect; if we continue to burn oil, methane and coal until it is exhausted, the state of the climate and humanity will be such as energy or not, a scarcity will have no importance.

As for the final propositions (life in small autarchic communities of around 150 individuals), they strike me as so false and fanciful (but they don't make me laugh, since some humans have managed to imagine that) that I don't want to argue. But they proceed from a fundamental error on humanity (even if it functions according to the "r" mode, unless it is K) and on interhuman relations ... Our village, today, is the planet, and we will not go back, even if we pretend to go back ... Which obviously does not solve any problem ...
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Re: The planet is burning and we are watching our smartphones.




by sicetaitsimple » 04/03/19, 21:57

It's true that it doesn't really make you want to participate in his Kolkhoz at the end, uh, sorry, “permavillage” (don't forget to pay on Tipeee).

More seriously, I join Bardal, it is perhaps sincere on the part of the author, but very very superficial ......
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