The 150 CCC proposals

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ABC2019
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by ABC2019 » 25/06/20, 08:37

Paul72 wrote:I must admit that I did not understand either: any highly technological solution generates generates new extractions and transformations of rare raw materials, which cannot be found only by recycling the existing (which would be easier for low tech), which requires a riot of fossil and nuclear energy to be produced.

The resource in energy and in minerals is really in my opinion the most limiting factor to the maintenance (even precarious) of current societies. Who are therefore doomed to decrease over time (without determining when, we will only know afterwards)

oh well then we agree in fact, we can not reduce the consumption of nonrenewable resources, and in particular those of fossils, without decreasing economically?
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by Rajqawee » 25/06/20, 09:59

Paul72 wrote:I must admit that I did not understand either: any highly technological solution generates generates new extractions and transformations of rare raw materials, which cannot be found only by recycling the existing (which would be easier for low tech), which requires a riot of fossil and nuclear energy to be produced.

The resource in energy and in minerals is really in my opinion the most limiting factor to the maintenance (even precarious) of current societies. Who are therefore doomed to decrease over time (without determining when, we will only know afterwards)


In my opinion, it's rather that when we discover new technologies, we don't use them (only) to do better what we did before, but to do things that we weren't doing.

Without saying that it is necessarily bad, it is like the sources of energy; no new source replaced the previous ones, we just added this new source to the total energy output.
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by Ahmed » 25/06/20, 10:36

The concern is not that it is "necessarily bad", but that it inexorably increases the entropy of the environment ...
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by Paul72 » 25/06/20, 11:55

Rajqawee wrote:
Paul72 wrote:I must admit that I did not understand either: any highly technological solution generates generates new extractions and transformations of rare raw materials, which cannot be found only by recycling the existing (which would be easier for low tech), which requires a riot of fossil and nuclear energy to be produced.

The resource in energy and in minerals is really in my opinion the most limiting factor to the maintenance (even precarious) of current societies. Who are therefore doomed to decrease over time (without determining when, we will only know afterwards)


In my opinion, it's rather that when we discover new technologies, we don't use them (only) to do better what we did before, but to do things that we weren't doing.

Without saying that it is necessarily bad, it is like the sources of energy; no new source replaced the previous ones, we just added this new source to the total energy output.


It's also true. All that has to do with digital: the more efficient you are and the more digital coverage you increase, the more the total consumption increases despite the greater energy efficiency of the individual devices.
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by Ahmed » 25/06/20, 12:08

This is the classic "rebound" effect in all its glory ...
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by Rajqawee » 25/06/20, 12:09

Paul72 wrote:
Rajqawee wrote:
Paul72 wrote:I must admit that I did not understand either: any highly technological solution generates generates new extractions and transformations of rare raw materials, which cannot be found only by recycling the existing (which would be easier for low tech), which requires a riot of fossil and nuclear energy to be produced.

The resource in energy and in minerals is really in my opinion the most limiting factor to the maintenance (even precarious) of current societies. Who are therefore doomed to decrease over time (without determining when, we will only know afterwards)


In my opinion, it's rather that when we discover new technologies, we don't use them (only) to do better what we did before, but to do things that we weren't doing.

Without saying that it is necessarily bad, it is like the sources of energy; no new source replaced the previous ones, we just added this new source to the total energy output.


It's also true. All that has to do with digital: the more efficient you are and the more digital coverage you increase, the more the total consumption increases despite the greater energy efficiency of the individual devices.


Yes. This is typically the case with digitization in administrative jobs (my case): digitizing texts that we often use is pretty good. We save paper and storage space.
On the other hand, digitizing texts that one almost never consults requires large storage capacities that must be managed, cooled, bought back. The paper prints once and often keeps 10 years ... or more. I decided not to digitize property titles for example. They already exist in paper at my place and at the notary, that's enough.

I am trying to change my habits, for example, using an mp3 player rather than listening to music online. Buy paper books when I know I will reuse them (like a guitar method) rather than the kindle version.
Try to use the media library downstairs more often for the few movies we watch, rather than downloading or watching them live.
Use notebooks for different projects rather than google docs. This kind of things.
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by izentrop » 01/07/20, 08:10

Rajqawee wrote: digitizing texts that are almost never consulted requires large storage capacities that must be managed, cooled, bought back. The paper prints once and often keeps 10 years ... or more. I decided not to digitize property titles for example.
Non-volatile memory exists like DVD, USB hard drives, SD card.

It is mainly videos and images that consume energy. With a good organization, the removal of redundant and outdated data and the migration to more and more non-volatile memories, the internet still has answers to give for the storage of low carbon footprint data, do not reject everything as a whole .

Professionals and farmers are the big forgotten in this masquerade of the CCC
82% of the 150 people drawn by lot come from municipalities belonging to a large urban center or to its crown. 150 people who were not elected but who, judging by the importance that the first of us has just given them, could well influence the debate. In this panel of anonymous we find only 4% of artisans, traders or business leaders and ... 1% of farmers.
Who are we laughing at ? If not from this rural minority which no longer represents anything in the ballot box but which still continues to feed the population and generate induction throughout the territory. Negligible quantity, condemned to undergo the “legitimacy” of environmentalists via this citizens' convention and the coercive gadgets which will result from it by suggesting new dogmas just as unenforceable as unsuitable. As a result of the races, our campaigns will have to deal with the fantasies of a handful of sores that confuse dream and reality, somewhere between DIY and opportunities. http://www.lagri.fr/lecologie-des-ville ... des-champs


The executive has made its market by not retaining a measure that would have been in the right direction of reducing polluting gas emissions, the 110km / h on highway, the government and the senates will eliminate it a little more reducing the bit of proposals useful to skin of sorrow, from where the attribute of masquerade.
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by ENERC » 01/07/20, 19:34

Professionals and farmers are the big forgotten in this masquerade of the CCC

The aim being to have a statistically representative sample of the population, the figure of 1% is even overvalued since there were 448 farm managers in 500 according to the MSA. Most agricultural workers come from other countries on fixed-term contracts.

To change agriculture, there are only two solutions: either we act on production, or we act on consumption.

I no longer believe in action on production: the weight of chemical and agricultural lobbies (FNSEA) are such that nothing changes: fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides, herbicides, etc.
It is therefore up to the other 99% to change the modes of production by taking either personal (organic food) or collective measures such as meals in canteens.
When conventional farmers do not sell anything, they will disappear.

As a result of the races, our campaigns will have to deal with the fantasies of a handful of sores that confuse dream and reality, somewhere between DIY and opportunities

Typical FNSEA speech with arguments from the 19th century. We have real problems of soil and groundwater pollution, loss of biodiversity and soil depletion. We will have serious water problems in summer in the years to come.
Faced with these problems, the old agricultural world is trying to maintain itself without changing anything.
We have known how to cultivate differently for a long time and we talk a lot about it forum. : Cheesy:
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by Macro » 01/07/20, 19:49

110km / h on the highway ... They are laughing .... There will be a shortage of vegetables .... Spanish trucks driven by Romanian drivers will no longer be able to drive fast enough to power rungis ....
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Re: The 150 proposals of the CCC




by GuyGadebois » 01/07/20, 19:53

izentrop wrote:Professionals and farmers are the big forgotten in this masquerade of the CCC

Always on the side of the most polluting and the largest producers of Co2 as far as I can see ... who are swallowing up the billions of the CAP. And after that dares to speak of global warming.

Ps: 110Km / h on the highway it was grotesque, 120 (as in Switzerland, Ireland or Spain) would have been more reasonable.
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