Renewable energy, the example of China?

[realistic ecology]

The Chinese government continues to withdraw from financial support for renewable energy.

It may be Chinese realism.
In France, what is the balance sheet of solar panels that provide intermittent low-carbon, "fatal" energy, replacing low-carbon nuclear energy? What is the effect on global warming? No !
But it gets even worse: since these panels do not save CO2 in France, they cannot repay their debts. However, they have at least the CO2 debt of their manufacture. This is particularly significant when a photovoltaic panel is made in China, with Chinese kWh heavy with CO2 from coal, and then used in France. What is the use of burning coal in China, to manufacture panels that will come to France to replace the low-carbon energy of nuclear power stations (other than satisfying fantasies)? To nothing !
This is the case of the Cestas photovoltaic power plant, "the largest photovoltaic park in Europe", inaugurated in 2015 in France, whose panels were manufactured in China. The overall result of this "green" plant will be an increase in CO2 emissions on the planet!
Not to mention the extinct forest whose powerhouse has taken the place.
Chinese blue signs are not Green.
Even if technology advances, even if the ecological cost of manufacturing the panels decreases, a panel manufactured in China, transported and installed in France, will be always globally CO2 emitter.
The ideal would be for the panels to be manufactured in France with light CO2 electricity thanks to French nuclear power, then exported to China to save Chinese coal.
But do not dream ...

[GuyGadebois]

The ideal would be for the panels to be manufactured in France with light CO2 electricity thanks to French nuclear power, then exported to China to save Chinese coal.
But do not dream ...

The massive relocations have screwed us up in this inextricable mess.

[plasmanu]

In Grenoble there was a PV factory.
My reports are German.
If it's bought in China today. Why...
Where are the rare metals not rare.
Where not excessive margins are practiced thanks to the volume.
Who delivers free of charge without VAT.
It's not that simple

IMG_20200204_170825.jpg (287.09 KB) Viewed times 3058

[sicetaitsimple]

In France, what is the balance sheet of solar panels that provide intermittent low-carbon, "fatal" energy, replacing low-carbon nuclear energy?

You are both right and wrong ...

Reason when you say that a panel made in China will take a long time to repay its "carbon debt" if it is installed in a country where electricity is already very low carbon, in France as elsewhere.

Wrong when you say "replacing the low carbon energy of nuclear". You can look at the figures, despite the "reasoned" boom in renewables, say over the last decade in France, annual nuclear production has changed little, and the occasional drops that can be observed are linked to events specific to nuclear power or to external events (shutdown of Cruas for a few weeks, for example at the end of 2019 following the earthquake).

[realistic ecology]

...

I am not saying that a panel made in China and installed in France will take a long time to repay its "carbon debt"; I say that he will not reimburse it (as long as the French power stations have not been stopped).

For your second part, I was indeed wrong to oversimplify things.
We are spending billions of € to develop new renewable energies, because we are led to believe that this will reduce the share of nuclear power. It's wrong. New renewable energies in France only compensate for the increase in energy demand. This is more true at the global level, taking into account emerging countries: despite renewable energies, the demand for fossils continues to grow, as well as CO2 emissions.

Can renewable energies replace fossil fuels alone

[sicetaitsimple]

I am not saying that a panel made in China and installed in France will take a long time to repay its "carbon debt"; I say that he will not reimburse it (as long as the French power stations have not been stopped).

Source?

[realistic ecology]

I am not saying that a panel made in China and installed in France will take a long time to repay its "carbon debt"; I say that he will not reimburse it (as long as the French power stations have not been stopped).

Source?

I explained it in a previous post:
"In France, what is the balance sheet of solar panels that provide intermittent low-carbon energy," fatal ", replacing low-carbon nuclear energy? What is the effect on global warming? None!
But it gets even worse: since these panels do not save CO2 in France, they cannot repay their debts. However, they have at least the CO2 debt of their manufacture. This is particularly significant when a photovoltaic panel is made in China, with Chinese kWh heavy with CO2 from coal, and then used in France. What is the use of burning coal in China, to manufacture panels that will come to France to replace the low-carbon energy of nuclear power stations (other than satisfying fantasies)? To nothing ! "

[realistic ecology]

I am not saying that a panel made in China and installed in France will take a long time to repay its "carbon debt"; I say that he will not reimburse it (as long as the French power stations have not been stopped).

Source?

 An order of magnitude, with data from 2011:
- Or a theoretical "PV" photovoltaic panel producing 100 kWh annually.
- It took 400 kWh of electricity to manufacture it.
- If the manufacturing is done in China, these 400 kWh of electricity will emit 360 kg of CO2.
- For 30 years (approximate lifespan of current panels), this panel will produce 3 kWh.
- This panel installed in France will save 3 kWh of French electricity, which "emits" 000g of CO42 per / kWh.
- The Chinese panel used in France will therefore save 3000 * 42g / kWh = 126 kg of CO2
  ► The "PV" photovoltaic panel emits more CO2 during its manufacture in China (360 kg) than what it saves during its use (30 years) in France (126 kg).

Data from 2011, to match the cases of the Cestas photovoltaic plant, "the largest photovoltaic park in Europe", inaugurated in 2015 in France, whose panels were manufactured in China

[GuyGadebois]

"In France, what is the balance sheet of solar panels that provide intermittent low-carbon energy," fatal ", replacing low-carbon nuclear energy? What is the effect on global warming? None!

Source? Not enough to say ...

[sicetaitsimple]

 An order of magnitude, with data from 2011: -

2011 is almost 10 years ago.
This is the whole issue of renewables, we cannot stay on performance values ​​in the broad sense or cost of ten years ago.
And I am far from being an ayatollah of renewable generators, especially in France.
But looking in the rearview mirror doesn't really sound like a good idea to me.