Is Logan greener than the Prius?

[Christophe]

So that changed because when the start & stop was launched it was optional ...

I am and certain given the media hype and especially the appropriation by Citroën (behavior very French francais) of this so-called global innovation but already mounted on the VW Lupo for years ...

Is it also negativity? Still sorry to be not chauvinist ... I'm talking about facts ...

ps: here I just took a tour on the citroën site, the start & stop is not indicated in series ... are you sure you did not have a limited special series?

[Christophe]

According to the Citroen website, only the C2 and C3 petrol 1.4i 16V 90 ch-5 CV offer Stop & Start:

YOUR C3 Stop & Start 1.4i 16v 90ch SensoDrive

Base price (incl. VAT) 16 050,00 €
Case color (TTC): Oriental Blue Metallic 380,00 €
Interior trim (inc VAT): Fabric Arcus Gray 0,00 €

Total price (tax incl.) 16 430,00 €

YOUR C3 Pack Clim 1.4i 16v 90ch BVM5
Base price (incl. VAT) 15 200,00 €
Case color (TTC): Grand Pavois blue metallic
380,00 € Interior trim (inc VAT): Velvet Finkel Tramontane 0,00 €

Total price (tax incl.) 15 580,00 €

You're right, it's over 2000 € ... it's 850 € the start & stop ...

[denis]

Absolutely not, another negative idea: my C2 Stop & Start cost me € 15000 super equipped as standard: it is a specific model and not an option (ditto for the C3), (as standard: automatic air conditioning, regulator gearbox, sensodrive gearbox, automatic headlights, automatic windshield wipers, etc ...) and also uses a specific motor (1400S16 90hp) very economical and full of torque: on the contrary, it is an excellent deal ...

wow !!!! everything to break down !! not reparable because too expensive!
these car as they aurront 7 / 8ans, 140 000km and q'un box of 1200 € grillera, will do what ???

good luck with these technological bombs !!

hoping that the old generations do not go too quickly to the case!

[Christophe]

denis, would not that be some free provocation your post there?

It's already tense enough as a subject you do not find?

[denis]

denis, would not that be some free provocation your post there?

It's already tense enough as a subject you do not find?

desolate oups, it's my temperament, black humor
Nothing naughty, I do not want to hurt anyone, and do not wish any problem for these cars, but the problem is there .. in the future only make cars that aurront bugger and are not worth too much money, hacks by buying to the case will be finished!
cars 10 years no longer pass to the bag, concessions no longer have the material of time!

[Christophe]

Yes apparently it is the temperament of a lot of people on this forum (me the 1er but it does not facilitate the progress of the debate ....

For your remark I tend to agree: the manufacturers want to end up with the "maintenance-free" car in the long term ... in other words: the disposable car ... (not in the sense of single use but that we repair more) ... but at the same time, more worryingly, the average lifespan of vehicles is declining ...

Warning: life = not when the vehicle is completely HS but when the vehicle is not economically repairable compared to its rating ... In fact the technical control is obviously also for something in the decline in the average life .

It prevents, we are more and more in a logic of consumption and garages do more computer than mechanics.

Moreover, the real garages of mechanics are all about to die slowly because of this system: those who survive are those who are also licensed dealer and can buy (regularly renewed) diagnostic tools.

In short the logic of the builders I feel that it is either you with us and you pay or you think ...

I feel that Chatam will not like this impression at all ...

[jean63]

the problem is there .. in the future that cars that aurront bugger and that are not worth too much money, hacking by buying the case will be over!
cars 10 years no longer pass to the bag, concessions no longer have the material of time!

Well agree with you ....... it's when they go to age and it will bug that it will be very expensive.

A colleague of my sister had a bp on the Brake Assist (ABS) on a recent Renault, not the twingo but the other small. the car was little more than a year and more under warranty: she had a bill of madness (between 1000 and 2000 euros). They claimed to have changed the central ABS!

Are you kidding, I got this pb on my R25 and it's a messed up wheel sensor, I found one in the scrapyard and off we go. The last time, the light remained on and she had to go to control: I opened the dashboard and removed the "ABS fault" bulb so that it went to control. They don't know how to check if the anti-lock brakes REALLY work . They rely on the fault indicator on the dashboard on some points it is pipo the control.

These new archi-electronic cars, they will have to be kept very little and under warranty. The best is to buy "3 year guarantees" ..... and again there are all the so-called wear parts such as the catalytic converter, the DPF etc .... which are not under warranty, but for an electronic pb it must be there.

[jean63]

Yes apparently it is the temperament of a lot of people on this forum (me the 1er but it does not facilitate the progress of the debate ....

For your remark I tend to agree: the manufacturers want to end up with the "maintenance-free" car in the long term ... in other words: the disposable car ... (not in the sense of single use but that we repair more) ... but at the same time, more worryingly, the average lifespan of vehicles is declining ...

Warning: life = not when the vehicle is completely HS but when the vehicle is not economically repairable compared to its rating ... In fact the technical control is obviously also for something in the decline in the average life . Too bad because it was very nice.

It prevents, we are more and more in a logic of consumption and garages do more computer than mechanics.

Moreover, the real garages of mechanics are all about to die slowly because of this system: those who survive are those who are also licensed dealer and can buy (regularly renewed) diagnostic tools.

In short the logic of the builders I feel that it is either you with us and you pay or you think ...

I feel that Chatam will not like this impression at all ...

A young mechanic settled in my country a few years ago. He quickly needed diagnostic tools (very expensive); so after he is forced to make big bills to amortize his gear !!
With me it happens amicably, he does not need his diag tool, although there is a catch: now I know the main defects in general defective sensors that does not cost much.

It is real mechanics that I can not or do not want to do because I do not have the same courage as a few years ago to sleep under the cars.

We can not say that they do not do more mechanics, but the problem is that the diagnosis is difficult to ask even with the bag of diag.

When I had the automatic gearbox on my R25 and the fault light came on, Renault never found the "fault" with the suitcase: in fact it was just getting hot; it's still amazing that they did not put a temperature sensor indicating this problem. Since I have the manual gearbox, what peace of mind. And I saw plenty of them on forums of mechanics whose auto gearboxes have failed ... especially the R25s.

[Hub]

To return to multiplexing and electronic failures, some manufacturers (Toyota for example) are back to precisely ensure reliability. This was explained to us by an honest opel vendor (or unconscious) when we hesitated between yaris and corsa. Toyota does not want to return as a guarantee for bugs that make appointments to be resolved.

Hub

[jean63]

To return to multiplexing and electronic failures, some manufacturers (Toyota for example) are back to precisely ensure reliability. This was explained to us by an honest opel vendor (or unconscious) when we hesitated between yaris and corsa. Toyota does not want to return as a guarantee for bugs that make appointments to be resolved.

Hub

thank you for the information always good to know.

When we went too far, we have to know how to reverse ..... if there is still time