Is Logan greener than the Prius?

[bamboo]

Hello,

Uh fake ... it's series at BMW on diesel (and gasoline) ... in the pack "efficient Dynamics"(with a system, even more" impressive ", for the series, of braking energy recovery)

Christophe, I don't understand why you are so appreciative of the BM and so critical of the Prius. The latter recovers _also_ the energy of the braking. In short, on the “hybridization” side, the Prius does as well as the BM.

Moue frankly blah ... gasoline additives I'm more suspicious than those of diesel ... fortunately the cerine is over ... (I think) ...

Fully agree. I think both race to be the most polluting!

[Chatham]

Uh fake ... it's series at BMW on diesel (and gasoline) ... in the pack "efficient Dynamics"(with a system, even more" impressive ", for the series, of braking energy recovery)

Indeed, I had skipped the BMWs, but must say that I am not too interested in a brand whose model series 1 diesel (admittedly more powerful) corresponding to a C2 s & s costs € 27000 or € 12000 more expensive equipment strictly equal ...
Note that unlike the stop & start PSA which are in sensodrive transmission (robotic gearbox), the BMW is only available with a beast manual gearbox.The energy recovery function is a bit of a gadget on BMWs (an alternator piloted: it comes down to an electronic card), but it has the merit of existing ...

[Leo Maximus]

Yes 4 seconds but with a gasoline stop & start type car, probably a little more with a diesel (not yet in production) because more energy is spent to restart the engine.

Uh fake ... it's series at BMW on diesel (and gasoline) ... in the pack "efficient Dynamics" (with a system, even more "impressive", for the series, of braking energy recovery)

... from an ecological point of view, it's better to have an essence that does not emit particles ...

Moue frankly blah ... gasoline additives I'm more suspicious than those of diesel ... fortunately the cerine is over ... (I think) ...

The Prius marketed in 1997 in Japan and 2000 in France already had braking energy recovery. The reaction of the German bosses at the time (BMW, Mercos and others) is that it had no interest and no future, I have it in old issues of automotive magazines in the attic. There are only fools who do not change their minds, bravo the German builders.
NB: The Honda Insight (80 g CO2 per km, a record), marketed in 1999 and 1 hybrid era in the USA also had energy recovery under braking.

[Leo Maximus]

You ask a question and you give yourself the answer when you obviously never seriously considered the purchase of a Prius because:
- It's an essence.
- It is relatively expensive.
- You could not ignore that the Prius can not tow a trailer because the management electronics of the hybrid system excludes the use.
- Toyota is not a French brand.
- Etc ...

Rectify your honor: I give the answer for my case.
... and if one of the arguments that you give did indeed intervene in my choice (the price), the others did not intervene for the following reasons:

• diesel gas : It is generally accepted in France that for cars that have to drive a lot, diesel is more profitable. Now, if I am offered a gas that pollutes less and consumes in the same waters, I am not sectarian.
• Trailer impossible: Well, if, you see, I could ignore it . Thank you for enlightening me on this subject.
• French brand or not: Be careful not to confuse: what interests me is more the place of production.
  The nationality of the head office does not mean much nowadays. Toyota has a factory in France and Renault has factories in China. My criterion is gray energy. I would rather buy a Chinese brand car made in France than the other way around.

Case of the gearbox 200000 kms: it was an automatic gearbox? otherwise I do not see the relationship with the GPL.

It may be because there are none
It was a box design defect on the Laguna Essence: a sealing defect of a spi seal of the box. The problem is that the box only leaked when driving, the leak was difficult to detect.
What I wanted to say was rather in the spirit: "to have an old car (past 200 000Km), you must have certain talents in mechanics".
As for the fact that I did not buy GPL after, it's just that I did not find that suited me at the time ...
However, I liked the LPG, Laguna was my 3e equipped car.

Between us, we are in France and here appearances it plays a lot then a Logan (even new) pulling a trailer (even new) it's really péquenot, then it will avoid Deauville ...

Spi seal leak is not specifically Laguna but typically Renault, it was common on R9 / R11 from 50000 km. Symptom: the oil level drops and the clutch grazes downshift. Diagnosis: After removing the bellows from the clutch fork, touch the flywheel with the finger, if there is engine oil is that the seal spi leaks. The absence of quality control worthy of the name in some Renault equipment manufacturers gives this result.

[Christophe]

Only fools do not change their minds, bravo the German builders.

... these 2 topics have almost nothing to do because recovering braking energy on a hybrid is an obligation of the specifications.

It is much less so on a big sedan ... so you won't make me change my mind about the fact that BMW is making an R&D effort on this point of view and nothing obliges (for the moment but that is changing ) BMW to offer this standard equipment ...

To my knowledge, the Start & Stop is offered as an option from French manufacturers (on the few models that offer it C3 and other ???) and for a price, around 2000 €, at the limit ofscam!

ps: note for all, for your quotes, try to resume that the passage that interests you please.

[Leo Maximus]

Only fools do not change their minds, bravo the German builders.

... these 2 topics have almost nothing to do because recovering braking energy on a hybrid is an obligation of the specifications.

How is this an obligation on a hybrid? The start & stop (or stop & go) is not compulsory either. The batteries can be recharged by the heat engine during the phases when its performance is good, moreover it should be noted that the German hybrid prototype Audi Duo and also the VW golf hybrid with double clutch were indeed hybrids and did not have regenerative braking.

[Christophe]

Hey, I'm going to write the news and it comes to my mind that in fact our comparison Logan / Prius is rather biased ...

Indeed it would be necessary to compare the Prius with a diesel of ... 1997.

I do not think there have been very great improvements engine (I speak performance level, result what ...) on the prius since even a model prius 2 is out .... which is far from be the case of diesel ...

[Leo Maximus]

Hey, I'm going to write the news and it comes to my mind that in fact our comparison Logan / Prius is rather biased ...

Indeed it would be necessary to compare the Prius with a diesel of ... 1997.

I do not think there have been very great improvements engine (I speak performance level, result what ...) on the prius since even a model prius 2 is out .... which is far from be the case of diesel ...

For me, this thread was above all anti-hybrid, anti-Prius, nothing else, that's the reason why I intervened because I was in Japan at the time of the release of the first version and I understood that this technology was full of future. It's a fact, there are very few technical differences between the 1997 Prius and the 2003 Prius and the performances are very close.

I hope Targol will send us the picture of his brand new Logan with his trailer .

[Christophe]

Here I have made the news: EcoBilan of a car, the Logan more eco-friendly than the Prius?

Targol if you have things to add or edit in the news tell me, you are the initiator of the subject.

[Chatham]

To my knowledge, the Start & Stop is offered as an option from French manufacturers (on the few models that offer it C3 and other ???) and for a price, around 2000 €, at the limit ofscam!

Absolutely not, another negative idea: my C2 Stop & Start cost me € 15000 super equipped as standard: it is a specific model and not an option (ditto for the C3), (as standard: automatic air conditioning, regulator gearbox, sensodrive gearbox, automatic headlights, automatic windshield wipers, etc ...) and also uses a specific motor (1400S16 90hp) very economical and full of torque: on the contrary, it is an excellent deal ...