Greta facing the deputies

Warming and Climate Change: causes, consequences, analysis ... Debate on CO2 and other greenhouse gas.
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realistic ecology
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by realistic ecology » 29/07/20, 10:00

Eric Dupont wrote:it would suffice to multiply the number of nuclear power plants by 50 to solve the problem.

So here is the very pessimistic vision of a pro nuclear who recognizes that nuclear power is not the solution.

Again, you only see part of the reality.
There is not ONE problem, there is not ONE solution.
There are problems, with theoretical solutions that lead us into the wall.
There are problems, with realistic solutions, but difficult.

I am indeed not optimistic about what will happen next. Because I see how attractive dream solutions are. Dream solutions are those that could solve problems ... ON CONDITION! Provided that the men are different; on condition of technical revolution; provided that men eat less meat; provided that we know how to massively store electricity.

Dream solutions would solve problems without costing effort; let's continue to consume, to demand salary increases from the boss, it is enough to consume better. This allows you to fall asleep blissfully with the feeling of saving the planet; while we go into the wall.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by Eric DUPONT » 30/07/20, 08:12

I understand that greta is full that governments do nothing in the face of global warming and that "realistic ecology" defends governments by explaining that it is complicated and that it is not the fault of governments but of men and that if the men let the governments build more nuclear power plants that would be better;
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by ABC2019 » 03/08/20, 09:18

izentrop wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:Effectively fighting against the abuse of sugar in modern food would have a much stronger impact than fighting against CO2, but Greta just has to take the good fight then.
How old are you ?
You give the impression of continually having a teenage crisis to provoke with absurdities :x :|


what is absurd?

out of the 10 main causes of death, which do you directly relate to CR?

https://www.terrafemina.com/forme/sante ... monde.html


fighting against excess sugar seems to me to impact the lives of many more people than to denounce the catastrophes due to the RC that nobody even knows how to quantify correctly !!
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by ABC2019 » 03/08/20, 09:23

dede2002 wrote:For the real problems we agree, but what do you think the real solutions are?

it depends, you are looking for "solutions" to what?
if you want to continue the current way of life without fossils, in my opinion there are none.
Continue with the fossils until the end?
RC is only one facet of the problem, and its media coverage has the advantage of starting to make people aware that there is a problem ...

We can continue to accelerate facing the wall, by changing the engine (infinite growth!), Or try to slow down ...

There is no "trying" to slow down, we will slow down anyway by force of circumstances. Growth is not an "engine", it is the result of the availability of resources, and when this decreases, it will stop by itself.

But actually no reason either to stop earlier than what nature will let us do, so I do think that we will burn the fossils to the end. I do not see the point of wanting to accelerate a decrease which will be inevitable in the future anyway.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by Paul72 » 03/08/20, 10:09

ABC2019 wrote:
dede2002 wrote:For the real problems we agree, but what do you think the real solutions are?

it depends, you are looking for "solutions" to what?
if you want to continue the current way of life without fossils, in my opinion there are none.
Continue with the fossils until the end?
RC is only one facet of the problem, and its media coverage has the advantage of starting to make people aware that there is a problem ...

We can continue to accelerate facing the wall, by changing the engine (infinite growth!), Or try to slow down ...

There is no "trying" to slow down, we will slow down anyway by force of circumstances. Growth is not an "engine", it is the result of the availability of resources, and when this decreases, it will stop by itself.

But actually no reason either to stop earlier than what nature will let us do, so I do think that we will burn the fossils to the end. I do not see the point of wanting to accelerate a decrease which will be inevitable in the future anyway.


The interest? Maybe to survive in a world not too unlivable ...
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by realistic ecology » 03/08/20, 10:29

sicetaitsimple wrote:Writing "New renewables less than 2%" may be correct (I haven't checked), but it's just looking backwards.

Looking in the retro can see where we are going. I know, we can use humor easily on this kind of sentence. But it is by looking at past developments that we can get an idea of ​​the evolution of the "near" future: it will be substantially along the extension of the curves of the past.

Of course it must be taken into account that the new renewable energies are recent in their modern form, it is normal that they have not yet proved their worth. They have a considerable handicap to overcome. they need to be given some time to overcome their backlog and catch up, then replace fossil fuels.

The problem is that as time passes ... they do not catch up, on the contrary, it increases! Renewable energies are growing more slowly than fossil fuel consumption. The demand for energy grows because the population grows and has more purchasing power; and renewables are not even sufficient to meet the increase in demand alone. They grow less quickly than the consumption of fossil fuels. It will take a lot of patience while waiting for them to replace fossil fuels.

But it is not the patience that is lacking, it is the time: we do not have time to wait, global warming is already here. Anything that can help slow it down is okay to take, renewables like nuclear, but it is unrealistic to imagine stopping global warming with only future renewables.

And during that time, global warming takes its course.


Image
Source: Based on BP Statistical Review 2020

Image
By WEO 2016 Presentation
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by realistic ecology » 03/08/20, 10:37

Eric Dupont wrote:I understand that greta is full that governments do nothing in the face of global warming and that "realistic ecology" defends governments by explaining that it is complicated and that it is not the fault of governments but of men and that if the men let the governments build more nuclear power plants that would be better;

"I think I understand...". You believe a lot of things. When did I "stand up for governments"? What I defend is nuclear energy, low carbon, and one of the least dangerous there is (between 1971 and 2009, more than two million lives were saved by nuclear energy).
Governments in democratic countries are the image of the voters. Greta criticizes not taking into account the results of the researchers. Indeed, voters do not care about the results of researchers, and governments are obliged to take them into account: they back down on the carbon tax, they close nuclear power plants, etc. "I am their leader, I must follow them".

Yet the IPCC includes nuclear in the means of countering global warming.
It is not certain that Greta takes this into account.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by Paul72 » 03/08/20, 11:06

It is even more illusory to imagine meeting the current energy demand with nuclear for all than with renewable. Only energy decrease will allow it. And not a few%
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by ABC2019 » 03/08/20, 11:23

Paul72 wrote:The interest? Maybe to survive in a world not too unlivable ...

there is nothing to indicate that reasonably predictable CR with known fossil reserves prevents survival .... It's just self-built delirium in the media from things that have never been demonstrated by any scientist.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




by realistic ecology » 03/08/20, 14:07

Paul72 wrote:Only energy decrease will allow it. [limit global warming]

You want to ask for an "energy decrease" from Africans, Indians, etc. ?

We can ask the rich (us), but that only makes two billion people, while the poor and emerging are five billion. They are now the ones who emit the most CO2, and whose emissions are increasing.
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