COP21: no need to agree to spend a econologic!

[Christophe]

And here, all the same, the COP21 agreement in outline: http://www.lesoir.be/1068207/article/de ... sur-climat

[Ahmed]

For a festival of wishful thinking, Christmas is the ideal time ...

[Did67]

It's been a long time that I think we will have to do without the "system" to really make things happen ...

Our "leaders" are too easy ... in this "system" ...

I would say :

- "COP21: it is useless if we do not go to econology!"

- The debates on the "system", I leave to specialists endless palaver, intellectual masturbations which seem to make them enjoy only them ...

- It is obvious that the COP21 will have no effects if the great masses do not evolve in their consumption, therefore in their vision of the world (for me, what is important?), Their values ​​and finally the way they manage their desires ("I need the last Iphone!", otherwise I'm unhappy ... ????)

- No system (except perhaps "China" style dictatorships) will be able to implement the measures necessary for a "COP21" if people do not evolve; therefore do not become much more eco-friendly ...

- No officer (except perhaps a way dictator Kim Il Jong) may impose the changes assume the objectives of the COP21 ...

So: do not expect anything of the COP21 - which is only a agreement in principle ! Agreement on which I do not spit, it's important to set goals and, in this case de share ! This is huge, even.

An alcoholic, before treatment, it must be fixed objectively want the cure for his addiction. Without it nothing is possible.

But of course, without appropriate action, the objectives are useless!

Let us act so that everyone decreases their carbon footprint (and not just carbon by the way; there are, apart from COP21, particles, NOx, "mining" resources, etc., etc.).

This is called technically econologic.

This is called, at the level above, that of values, the happy decrease.

[wooten]

I know "the principle" of TAFTA in general unfortunately

But as 1er post just send a link is not very courteous ... hence my remark ... that's all

---

If it is the language that poses pb, there are some very good translators online who will provide a fairly accurate and sometimes headless translation, but at least you will have the main points - more in-depth than those you have not already mastered? I am thinking in particular of reverso and systran which are really not bad. To circulate by talking about it around you, it is more important than ever !!! I dare not "vital";)

[Ahmed]

DidI understand what you mean, but you reverse the situation somewhat: if the mass of consumers demanded eagerly latest I phone is a compensatory mimicry frustration induced a type of operation that makes the relationship between people is a relationship with things ...

Similarly, why say that the leaders, unless despots, could not induce the same mass more sober, as it assumes, wrongly, as they would like?

Ditto for the system: no need for a dictatorship (in the sense that you hear) to impose virtue, since it is not in the sense that it works ...

Wooten, That Christophe meant is that produce a link, that's fine, but it would be wise to go with personal comments.

[Did67]

DidI understand what you mean, but you reverse the situation somewhat: if the mass of consumers demanded eagerly latest I phone is a compensatory mimicry frustration induced a type of operation that makes the relationship between people is a relationship with things ...

Similarly, why say that the leaders, unless despots, could not induce the same mass more sober, as it assumes, wrongly, as they would like?

I understand your way of seeing things.

I do not adhere not entirely.

Societies are, for me, more complex than the "good citizens" victims of the bad system and the bad leaders.

The citizen is also an actor in the system. And they are far from being all clear, clairvoyant, dominated, mistreated, exploited ... They are also, and at the same time, troublesome, obscure, domineering, militant, exploiters ... Which makes everything very complicated. And that "revolutionary" rhetoric is just another church ...

This is only my point of view.

And of course, just a sketch.

People are interested.

The "system", I do not know (or too well).

Anyway, I see what you mean. The conclusion is the same. But I still do not understand why do not you suicides?

[Ahmed]

I reassure you! For me too things are more complex and that is why, far from absolute refutation, my previous message was rather a counterweight or, if you prefer, a supplement: anyway, the ruling class does not consist of reptilians (sic), as some claim , but simple humans, easily replaceable by others, even from "popular" classes, who would soon have adopted the posture of the former perfectly ... this is one of the reasons why I am by no means revolutionary (in the sense that it would suffice to replace the "corrupt" elites with "proletarians" with a pure heart!).

For suicide, you have a bad idea of ​​my functioning: as I have already mentioned here and there, I am a methodical pessimist, the only way allowing a measured optimism (by counterfactuality), so I am not at all desperate.
Moreover, a totaling system remains imperfect * and thus leaves a small margin of maneuver ...

You can count on me if you want to create the FLVT: Liberation Front of Earthworms: P

* If it was perfect, we do not we should perceive its reality.

[Did67]

Think that I was to 99,9% sure that you were not the neither too simplistic and less prone to suicide.

Otherwise, it would have a bit dangerous to speak.

Too bad it is so difficult to keep a specifically "philosophically political" thread here!

It's been two or three times that we're getting crazy, at the limit of the off-topic.

I would define myself as a pessimist who still wants to believe in the living, including man! And who, with the few means - and time - which remains to him, fights like a beast. And who, without having any chance of getting there, tries to apprehend the world in its complexity, far from any church (understand by that the sects, the political parties, the churches proper or the "moivements" of opinion of the kind "conspiracy" or any other "pro something blind from above) ...

So let's merge the "Front de Liberation des Arbres Fruitiers" - maybe a Belgian or other cultivated French speaker will understand! Do we have the same artistic references ???? - and the Earthworm Liberation Front ...

But maybe, just now, to 20 hours, would I be looking for political asylum ?????

[Ahmed]

I like your answer! 8)

I do not appreciate that much you adhered to 100% to my analysis, since it would, contrary to share my hand and, on the other hand absurd, for the simple reason that it is impossible for me produce a perfect explanatory theory and I am content to minimally rough sketches, without trying, as you understand, a scapegoat on which all responsibility would fall.
In fact, much of my effort is absorbed by the criticism of comfortable theories for the mind (of style: it is the fault of the other [even if some are more responsible than others]), but unfounded.
The conspiracy theories, for example, based on relevant and erroneous conclusions observations: it is because there is feedback between the individual and the aggregate level (the sum of individual behavior) we can talk * system of. It behaves as an externality without obviously possess this quality and action coordinating individual agents as if they were consulting ...

I edit, because I just noticed that when you spoke of "system", it was by reference to the message of Christophe in which the term rather meant those political institutions which it would be futile to expect anything, since it is not their role (if they did, school event, I would find it distasteful).

* In the sense that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

[Did67]

There I acquiesse without reservations.

PS: but tell me, was your earthworm liberation front an allusion or not to Julos Beaucarne's "Fruit Tree Liberation Front"? Or was it a fluke?