EDF Voltalis, you owe us your energy savings

[cpav49]

I am retired and I do not allow you to talk to me.

indy49 wrote:
Users are able to judge.

Without serious electrical knowledge, I do not think so.
To make the test in full size, it is necessary to sign the contract first!
Contract length ? Termination possibilities without charge? Reimbursement of installation costs?

indy49 wrote:
Yes. They do not say that they reduce the total consumption of a given customer. They say they reduce peaks in overall consumption.

I say the same thing for peaks, but if there is no reduction in the total consumption of a given customer: where is the advanced economy then?

indy49 wrote:
Very quickly, what is it? For decades, the principle of peak hours / off-peak hours only operates the water heater twice a day.
On the other hand, off-peak hours are, by definition, times when there is less demand. So the system should not prevent the water heater from running during these hours.

With a double peak hour / off-peak rate installation, a large capacity water heater (> 300 liters) is required, which is not the case for the majority.

indy49 wrote:
They say that, by default, the system is passive. Since you have no more argument than their brochure, I consider that they know their system and that they are right.

Passive system: what does it mean? In fact I know: the switch that cuts the devices has contacts closed by lack voltage (control); but that does not prevent a surge (thunderstorm) can grill the electronic control module and that it sends a permanent order to open the contactor (incidentally it has already happened to a customer who complained on another forum).
I am qualified in electricity / electronics / IT (hardware & programming), 30 years ago I was making modifications and interfaces for the first family computers, I was a freelance writer for several IT magazines, I even marketed software for PC.
The VOLTALIS system is technically very simple, but you are free to take the ad as a gospel word (common phrase with no absolute value!).

indy49 wrote:
They say they give back some of the earnings to their members.

Please specify the source (searchable / downloadable document where this is written).

indy49 wrote:
Whether it is a production or transportation concern, in all cases, a temporary solution must be found to reduce demand.

It does not seem to me to have said that the system was useless! But it worked before VOLTALIS no?

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What VOLTALIS does not tell the end customer is that it charges RTE very dearly for the peak MW "erased" (the latter being moreover impossible to quantify precisely: do not confuse the theoretical installed power controlled by the BluePods and power effectively shed) which will therefore cost EDF almost as much as if they had actually been produced by gas turbines. However, a gas turbine at a standstill still costs money, so if it produces less MW that it will then produce will be even more expensive, which will allow VOLTALIS to increase its prices, it's a circle. vicious (bubble like stock market speculation) where the only winner is VOLTALIS and the eternal loser is the end customer (of EDF, POWEO, DIRECT Energie ...; on August 15 EDF was authorized to increase its sales rates to its competitors by 8%).

So that's a system that leads to higher prices and less service.

[the middle]

I am retired and I do not allow you to talk to me.

Never ?

[renaud67]

I am retired and I do not allow you to talk to me.

Never ?

then let's speak english do you agree

[elephant]

I am retired and I do not allow you to talk to me.
.

This is unfortunate, because it's the kind of house and many econologists are far from being kids. We are on a forum friendly, not at school or in court.

[bamboo]

I am retired and I do not allow you to talk to me.

On the Internet, it is customary to get to know each other, but since it is your choice, I respect it.

Without serious electrical knowledge, I do not think so.

You talked about savings. Everyone is able to judge the contract they sign and read their bill.

To make the test in full size, it is necessary to sign the contract first!
Contract length ? Termination possibilities without charge? Reimbursement of installation costs?

Once again, everyone is able to read a contract (no need to be an electrical engineer for that).

I say the same thing for peaks, but if there is no reduction in the total consumption of a given customer: where is the advanced economy then?

Saving CO2: You agreed that it avoids running carbon plants.
Financial Economy: The company says there is gain for its members.

With a double peak hour / off-peak rate installation, a large capacity water heater (> 300 liters) is required, which is not the case for the majority.

The double rate is present in all the installations that I know where the water heater is electric (new, recent AND old apartments). If there are incompatible systems, the people involved do not take the system. That is all.

Passive system: what does it mean? In fact I know: the switch that cuts the devices has contacts closed by lack voltage (control); but that does not prevent a surge (thunderstorm) can grill the electronic control module and that it sends a permanent order to open the contactor (incidentally it has already happened to a customer who complained on another forum).

He was subscribed to the system? If so, I would be interested in the link to see what subscribers think.

The VOLTALIS system is technically very simple, but you are free to take the ad as a gospel word (common phrase with no absolute value!).

I do not take their ads as true truth, but I do not take opponents as gods either . Especially since EDF has its interests to defend also ... Why believe EDF more than others?
I was very critical when I saw that. I thought it did not bring anything, but before posting, I thought about it, and I told myself that there was indeed a possibility that their words would not be lies. I offered them the benefit of the doubt.
As you have not tested the system, your word is worth, in my eyes, no better than theirs.
(On the other hand, if you have read everything, you will have noticed that I have never mentioned their name, so as not to advertise them either)

Please specify the source (searchable / downloadable document where this is written).

I do not have more reliable sources than you. It is for this reason that I say that the customer sees well before to sign if it will pay him. If it does not, it does not sign!

It does not seem to me to have said that the system was useless! But it worked before VOLTALIS no?

It's possible, but I guess they want their piece of cake.

What VOLTALIS does not tell the end customer is that it charges RTE very dearly for the peak MW "erased" (the latter being moreover

I suppose that if RTE buys these services, it is that it costs him less than to do otherwise.

impossible to precisely quantify: do not confuse installed theoretical power controlled by the BluePods and power effectively offloaded) which will therefore cost EDF almost as much as if they had actually been produced by gas turbines. But a stationary gas turbine still costs money, so if it produces less MW it will produce then will be even more expensive,

The goal would be to build less gas plant, right?
It would make the KWh even cheaper
(Note / reminder: I am for the increase in the cost of KWh.A cheap energy causes waste.Where it is expensive it encourages energy savings)

[cpav49]

The link to the other forum, it may not be easy to reach the person really concerned, it is not she who posted ..
radins.com/reduc-electricite-voltalis-sujet525664.htm

indy49 wrote: I am for the increase in the cost of KWh.

There I will never agree, it is a policy of rich people, there are far too many people for whom the energy bill represents too much of the income.

The philosophy that seems predominant on this forum does not suit me (commercialism and invasive sponsorship). I will not come back.

[cpav49]

To prove to you that I am not biased in this case, I give you the following link:

http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/je-co ... 583728.php

The person mentioned is in the yellow pages.

[Christophe]

Just a little clarification for cpav49: about forums it is usual to systematically talk to each other ... I have never read a forum internet where vouvoyement was de rigueur!

So it has nothing to do with disrespect, it's just to make it lighter to read and write ...

For the rest I think that Voltalis is (was?) A good idea and EDF RTM ERDF could (had?) Develop it internally...

[bamboo]

Thank you for both links.

indy49 wrote: I am for the increase in the cost of KWh.

There I will never agree, it is a policy of rich people, there are far too many people for whom the energy bill represents too much of the income.

I agree that this requires sacrifices, but today, the environment often goes well after consumer goods (even the purchase of food passes after the game console!).
I am surrounded by people who complain about their "poor" purchasing power. Yet they are very well equipped and that does not prevent them from going to the other side of the world ...
Find the mistake...

[Christophe]

There I will never agree, it is a policy of rich people, there are far too many people for whom the energy bill represents too much of the income.

Can you give us some concrete examples of what you call "important part" please?