Hello,
Notice to lovers of CO2 content, I have two questions regarding the CO2 content of energies:
- the first: in what way would it not be appropriate to apply the average method for calculating the CO2 content in prospective? (would send a bad signal) I have a hard time representing it.
- do you have an idea of what could be worth the CO2 content of the gas calculated with a marginal method?
More generally, discussing around the CO2 content of energies (in particular electricity) would interest me a lot because it represents a major challenge in the fight against climate change
CO2 content of energies
-
Christophe
- Moderator
- posts: 79292
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 11028
Hi and welcome,
Regarding electricity, here are quite a few fairly precise figures: https://www.econologie.com/forums/nucleaire- ... t8139.html
As for your 2 methods, can you state them here?
Regarding electricity, here are quite a few fairly precise figures: https://www.econologie.com/forums/nucleaire- ... t8139.html
As for your 2 methods, can you state them here?
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
-
moinsdewatt
- Econologue expert
- posts: 5111
- Registration: 28/09/09, 17:35
- Location: Isére
- x 554
Re: CO2 content of energies
Neno92 wrote:Hello,
Notice to lovers of CO2 content, I have two questions regarding the CO2 content of energies: .....
Have you looked for ADEME. It must certainly exist there.
0 x
CO2 content of energies
Amoes has made a good summary of the two approaches for the CO2 content of electricity:
"The CO2 content of the different energies makes it possible to establish emissions balances according to energy consumption and to clarify investment choices in energy equipment.
CO2 content is assessed according to two conventions:
- either in direct emissions due to the use of energy by the consumer;
- either in life cycle analysis (LCA) in order to take into account emissions from the use of energy but also emissions due to energy supply and transformation chains (production, transport, distribution to consumers ...).
There are several evaluation methods: the average and marginal method.
The average method:
The average method, described in the Scoping Note published by ADEME in 2005 (NoteCO2_ademe.pdf), is based on a seasonal breakdown of consumption and production, thus taking into account the characteristic seasonal variation between summer and winter, on a historical basis.
In order to distinguish uses, average hourly, daily, monthly or seasonal content is calculated and then allocated in proportion to the distribution of uses. Note that this note was partially updated in 2008 by ADEME in Regard sur le Grenelle, in particular concerning the CO2 content of electric heating.
This method is limited to the establishment of a CO2 emissions balance, and does not allow the evaluation of emissions of an additional or avoided kWh.
In addition, it presents, as developed by ADEME and EDF, some inconsistencies:
- The values taken into account were calculated on the historical basis 1998-2003. For a better current assessment, it would be necessary to update these values and thus take into account the imports of electricity,…
- The production of DHW is considered as basic production while a part is linked to seasonality…
- The losses of the electrical system, almost proportional to the production, should not be allocated to the basic production either but distributed…
- Finally, the values are calculated in direct emissions and only taking CO2 into account. For an assessment closer to reality, it would be preferable to perform the calculation in Life Cycle Analysis and on all greenhouse gases.
According to the Négawatt association (see The CO2 content of electricity: a question of objectives!), After correcting these inconsistencies, the CO2 content of electricity in the base would be 43 gCO2 / kWh (compared to 40 before ) and 265 gCO2 / kWh for electric heating (compared to 180 before).
The marginal method:
The marginal method, used by RTE in The CO2 content of the electric kWh in 2007, makes it possible to measure the CO2 content of a marginal demand around its current power. That is to say, it makes it possible to assess the impact of an additional kWh or avoided on GHG emissions.
The marginal method in development and incremental method:
These two methods, marginal method in development (RTE, CO2 content of kWh electric (2007)) and incremental method (Gaz de France, Report of the Energy Commission (2008)), allow to assess the consequences of a change deep in the production fleet.
The mix proposed by Gaz de France in 2007 for electric heating is: "67% natural gas (50% combined cycles, 17% combustion turbines), 10% fuel oil (combustion turbines), 13% coal, 10% nuclear ". Hence a CO2 content of electricity for heating use of around 608 gCO2eq / kWh.
Regarding the marginal method approach being developed by RTE, no value for the CO2 content of electric heating is given. For basic uses, taking into account the development of renewable energies in the years to come, the CO2 content in 2020 is estimated at 400 gCO2eq / kWh "
"The CO2 content of the different energies makes it possible to establish emissions balances according to energy consumption and to clarify investment choices in energy equipment.
CO2 content is assessed according to two conventions:
- either in direct emissions due to the use of energy by the consumer;
- either in life cycle analysis (LCA) in order to take into account emissions from the use of energy but also emissions due to energy supply and transformation chains (production, transport, distribution to consumers ...).
There are several evaluation methods: the average and marginal method.
The average method:
The average method, described in the Scoping Note published by ADEME in 2005 (NoteCO2_ademe.pdf), is based on a seasonal breakdown of consumption and production, thus taking into account the characteristic seasonal variation between summer and winter, on a historical basis.
In order to distinguish uses, average hourly, daily, monthly or seasonal content is calculated and then allocated in proportion to the distribution of uses. Note that this note was partially updated in 2008 by ADEME in Regard sur le Grenelle, in particular concerning the CO2 content of electric heating.
This method is limited to the establishment of a CO2 emissions balance, and does not allow the evaluation of emissions of an additional or avoided kWh.
In addition, it presents, as developed by ADEME and EDF, some inconsistencies:
- The values taken into account were calculated on the historical basis 1998-2003. For a better current assessment, it would be necessary to update these values and thus take into account the imports of electricity,…
- The production of DHW is considered as basic production while a part is linked to seasonality…
- The losses of the electrical system, almost proportional to the production, should not be allocated to the basic production either but distributed…
- Finally, the values are calculated in direct emissions and only taking CO2 into account. For an assessment closer to reality, it would be preferable to perform the calculation in Life Cycle Analysis and on all greenhouse gases.
According to the Négawatt association (see The CO2 content of electricity: a question of objectives!), After correcting these inconsistencies, the CO2 content of electricity in the base would be 43 gCO2 / kWh (compared to 40 before ) and 265 gCO2 / kWh for electric heating (compared to 180 before).
The marginal method:
The marginal method, used by RTE in The CO2 content of the electric kWh in 2007, makes it possible to measure the CO2 content of a marginal demand around its current power. That is to say, it makes it possible to assess the impact of an additional kWh or avoided on GHG emissions.
The marginal method in development and incremental method:
These two methods, marginal method in development (RTE, CO2 content of kWh electric (2007)) and incremental method (Gaz de France, Report of the Energy Commission (2008)), allow to assess the consequences of a change deep in the production fleet.
The mix proposed by Gaz de France in 2007 for electric heating is: "67% natural gas (50% combined cycles, 17% combustion turbines), 10% fuel oil (combustion turbines), 13% coal, 10% nuclear ". Hence a CO2 content of electricity for heating use of around 608 gCO2eq / kWh.
Regarding the marginal method approach being developed by RTE, no value for the CO2 content of electric heating is given. For basic uses, taking into account the development of renewable energies in the years to come, the CO2 content in 2020 is estimated at 400 gCO2eq / kWh "
0 x
The problem is that the approach to emissions reduced to CO2 alone of each "primary energy" (another questionable concept) is extremely reductive ...
CO2 represents only about 10% of the emissions produced by the combustion of hydrocarbons, in particular.
This means that 90% of the real pollution generated (among others) by the automobile is overlooked, whether by weight or volume ...
A 2 liter displacement engine running at idle speed (1000 rpm) absorbing breathing air and rejecting every minute an equivalent volume of deadly gas representing more than 1.2 kg and more than 1m3 (1000 liters / minute ) or the air necessary for 50 people to LIVE.
This gives an idea of what 100 cars stopped on a traffic jam emit (the air needed for 5000 people!).
CO2 represents only about 10% of the emissions produced by the combustion of hydrocarbons, in particular.
This means that 90% of the real pollution generated (among others) by the automobile is overlooked, whether by weight or volume ...
A 2 liter displacement engine running at idle speed (1000 rpm) absorbing breathing air and rejecting every minute an equivalent volume of deadly gas representing more than 1.2 kg and more than 1m3 (1000 liters / minute ) or the air necessary for 50 people to LIVE.
This gives an idea of what 100 cars stopped on a traffic jam emit (the air needed for 5000 people!).
0 x
CO2 content of energies
Yes it is true it is important not to be limited to only CO2 emissions, certain GHGs being much more impacting on global warming. This is why we speak in CO2 equivalent: the CO2 equivalent designates the global warming potential (GWP = simple way to compare the different greenhouse gases that influence the climate system) of a GHG, calculated by equivalence with an amount of CO2 which would have the same GWP.
The CO2 content is therefore calculated in CO2 equivalent (geCO2 / kWh, the "e" meaning equivalent) so as to take into account the impact of all GHGs and not CO2 alone.
The CO2 content is therefore calculated in CO2 equivalent (geCO2 / kWh, the "e" meaning equivalent) so as to take into account the impact of all GHGs and not CO2 alone.
0 x
Back to "Climate Change: CO2, warming, greenhouse effect ..."
Who is online ?
Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 112 guests