[Debunked] A liner or freighter pollutes as much as 1 million cars...and 1000 tractors? Really ?

[izentrop]

So we could, perhaps (see if the orders of magnitude are the right ones) to explain the rise in temperatures of the last years, not by the increase in CO2 (or not totally even if it is CO2, and its "equivalents ", which remain responsible for the phenomenon) but by the reduction of sulfur oxides!

Can you check that Izentrop?

It is the high albedo of SO2 which allows part of the sun's rays to be reflected before they reach the ground.

This "air conditioning" of the planet, contrary to the allegations of Yuri Israel, is not a new idea but had already been mentioned as an emergency solution by other scientists, in particular Americans, before being considered too uncertain in view consequences that are difficult to assess. https://www.futura-sciences.com/planete ... que-11996/

The advantage is immediately seen when you put on the scale the effect on the climate on one side and lung problems on the other.

In a volcanic eruption, it's not only SO2 that prevents the sun's rays from reaching the ground

THE PINATUBO: On 07/11/1991 in the Philippines, the Pinatubo erupted when it had been dormant for more than six centuries. In all, 20 million tonnes of sulfur dioxide at a height of 20 km. They were dispersed in the atmosphere. All this gas caused the decrease of 1 to 5% of solar radiation received by the Earth, or -3,50 W / m2, resulting in a drop in temperature from 0,10 to 0,50 ° C and 1,50, 3 ° C at high latitudes for around XNUMX years.

Finally, Your curve does not make sense to compare a concentration of one direction with a temperature of the other. (see my maxim )

[Christophe]

It is the high albedo of SO2 which allows part of the sun's rays to be reflected before they reach the ground.

Yes that I understood well but I spoke in terms of tonnage ... in short is the quantity of SO2 that we emit are sufficient to have a measurable impact?

This "air conditioning" of the planet, contrary to the allegations of Yuri Israel, is not a new idea but had already been mentioned as an emergency solution by other scientists, in particular Americans, before being considered too uncertain in view consequences that are difficult to assess. https://www.futura-sciences.com/planete ... que-11996/

This is the theme of this subject: climate-change-co2 / geoengineering-cool-the-earth-against-the-warming-t2770.html

THE PINATUBO: On 07/11/1991 in the Philippines, the Pinatubo erupted when it had been dormant for more than six centuries. In all, 20 million tonnes of sulfur dioxide at a height of 20 km. They were dispersed in the atmosphere. All this gas caused the decrease of 1 to 5% of solar radiation received by the Earth, or -3,50 W / m2, resulting in a drop in temperature from 0,10 to 0,50 ° C and 1,50, 3 ° C at high latitudes for around XNUMX years.

Ah there we have some orders of magnitude there ... so we can make some estimates: how many tonnes of SO2 currently discharging the 60 large vessels in the world?

Finally, Your curve does not make sense to compare a concentration of one direction with a temperature of the other. (see my maxim )

Why not? The inversion of the concentration curve is just to better visualize ...

What a maxim ??? Ah yes your signature! Note that I used the conditional eh!

[Christophe]

To complete your curve on SO2 here is a more recent one: the fall continues well but it has stabilized for 5-6 years ...

http://www.statistiques.developpement-d ... oufre.html

pollutionairexterieur9a.jpg (46.77 KB) Viewed 3585 times

2 µg / m3 is the current urban concentration ...

How much can we estimate the average concentration on a global scale? I am trying to find out how many millions of T of SO2 are in the atmosphere today ... 1/10, 1/100 of this value?

[Christophe]

So here, rough calculation (please bring your opinions):

a) According to wiki, the mass of the atmosphere is 5,1480 × 10 ^ 18 kg https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosph%C3%A8re_terrestre

b) Suppose that the average concentration of SO2 in the atmosphere on a global scale is 1/100 that of cities or 2/100 µg SO2 / m3

c) 1 m3 of air weighs approximately 1,2 kg (at the altitude of cities), so we have a concentration of 2/120 µg SO2 / kg of air

d) We can estimate the current mass of SO2 in the atmosphere: 2/120 µg * 5,1480 × 10 ^ 18 kg = 0,0858 * 10 ^ -9 * 10 ^ 18 = 0.0858 * 10 ^ 9 kg = 0.0858 * 10 ^ 6 T = 85 Tons of SO800 ...

This is nothing at all compared to the 20 million tonnes of the Pinatobo eruption ...It would take a global concentration 250 times higher to obtain 20 million tonnes of SO2 ...

So even if we applied the concentration of French cities to the full atmosphere (and the reality is necessarily less important): we would have "only" 8 million tonnes ... not enough to limit warming ...

In short, it is not the pollution of boats that will really slow global warming (or one-tenth)!

[izentrop]

Another publication on the subject that has often been raised:

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In 2006, Paul Crutzen, Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1995, had also proposed that sulfur clouds be sent into the atmosphere in order to mitigate the phenomenon of warming.

In fact, such an intervention would do nothing at all and the risks would be great. "First, it is not certain that it would be effective," explains Hervé Le Treut. Aerosols remain in the atmosphere for a very short time while greenhouse gases have a very long lifespan. The effect would probably only be local. Then the operation would cause health problems. ". Sulfur is indeed harmful to the respiratory tract and it contributes to acid rain.

https://www.futura-sciences.com/planete ... que-31323/

Your last intervention confirms that it does not work, although the aerosol remaining for a short time in the atmosphere, all these emissions should be done in a short time ...
Too bad I felt a certain internal jubilation dawn in the mind of Exnihilo.
This same criticized by his friends https://www.climato-realistes.fr/geoing ... limatique/

In a file of https://fr.cdn.v5.futura-sciences.com/b ... rcages.pdf

1117-warming-climate-questions-forcages.pdf

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volcanoClimat.gif (101.85 KB) Consulted 3580 times

[Christophe]

However, it is quite likely that past SO2 concentrations have influenced warming by limiting its impact!

Uh what is the lifetime of atmospheric SO2? Answer: nothing at all, 3 to 5 hours half-life according to:

Sulfur dioxide.pdf

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So we can consider that the impact of SO2 emissions is only immediate on the climate: there is no persistence, unlike CO2 which has 100 years of atmospheric life!

Where am I going with this? Try to see if anthropogenic SO2 limited global warming during the years 1970-2000 and therefore that the temperature records that we beat every year since the beginning of the 2000s may be linked to the reduction of this "benefactor pollutant" ... since it limited the effect of greenhouse gases (which they continue to progress happily)!

Quiz: find the famous French skeptical climato hidden in this message

[Christophe]

So we can consider that the impact of SO2 emissions is only immediate on the climate: there is no persistence, unlike CO2 which has 100 years of atmospheric life!

Uh the effect of Pinatubo was much more important than a few hours ... 18 months mentioned above: uh why?

[Christophe]

By "correlating mixing" the 2 curves of SO2 concentrations, I obtain a value (city) exceeding 60 µg / m3 in France between 1970 and 1980. This is more than 30 times the current value.

With the assumptions and the previous method, we get a concentration for 10 years of at least 2,5 Million Tons in the atmosphere, it is still 10 times less than the 20 million tonnes of Pinatubo but the difference is that precisely this concentration was permanent and continuous over the whole decade while Pinatbu was a "one shot" ...

So I think we could say without getting too confused, that human emissions of sulfur oxide have indeed slowed down, for a few years, the evolution of global warming by, at most, a few tenths of a degree!

But climate thermodynamics is far from trivial!

[izentrop]

I up to 3 years in fact.
From what I have vaguely understood, there is a slow chemical modification of the elements

The area and mass of the sulfuric acid aerosol had respective maximum values ​​of 40 mum 2 / cm 3 and 160 ppbm approximately 180 days after the eruption and always remained of an order of magnitude greater than the ambient levels during at at least 2 years after the eruption. Such an improvement in the mass and surface area of ​​the aerosol due to the eruption resulted in significant variations in the atmospheric optical properties and the abundance of ozone.

Figure 8. History and elevation of the maximum surface and mass of aerosol sulfuric acid from Pinatubo based on surveys from Laramie (Wyoming), Kiruna (Sweden) and Lauder (New Zealand). (After Deshler et al. 1993.)

The optical depth time series (at 0,5 mum) from AVHRR measurements shows the time shifts of the maximum values ​​at different latitudes, as a function of the lateral propagation speeds of volcanic clouds (Long and Stowe, 1994). In tropical regions between 20 ° S. and 30 ° N. lat, the average optical depth reached its maximum value of 0,3 to 0,4 about 3 months after the eruption, then gradually decomposed with a slight seasonal variation. Since the volcanic cloud has spread in the southern hemisphere faster than in the northern hemisphere, the maximum optical depths of the northern middle latitudes appear 6 months later than in the southern hemisphere.

https://pubs.usgs.gov/pinatubo/self/index.html

You may have noticed that the temperature drops just after each major gas eruption, but the temperature increase resumes its course 1 to 2 years later. (Curve above)

[Christophe]

Yes I noticed!

But what interests me is whether theth 1930-1980 level of temperatures may be due to human sulfur emissions or not at all ...

Humanity did not reject as many GHGs as from 1980 but it did, however ... after that date China and India woke up and everything accelerated ...