Your experience of the energy renovation

[Eliot75]

Hello,

I am currently working with several French entrepreneurs and we are interested in energy renovation. We seek to understand the main difficulties encountered when undertaking renovation / energy efficiency projects at home. We seek to better understand these difficulties in order to create an innovative and efficient service.

We therefore appeal to you to have your opinion on the subject: do not hesitate to share with us the good and bad surprises that you may have in your work at home, as well as blocking points that you may dissuaded from undertaking this work. Our goal is to develop a solution that suits you!
Do not hesitate to answer directly on the forum

Thank you!

Eliot.

[Former Oceano]

What makes me reluctant to use a business today is the lack of seriousness of half of them. 4 companies intervened with me:
The solar installer (I am on trial), a masonry company (workmanship, work carried out and supplies not corresponding to the invoice estimates) which went bankrupt of course (the commercial court gives me reason for the claim given the report of 'expertise but I will not be paid because not priority), the installer of joinery subcontracting the mason (I had to adjust the closings of the bay which closed badly) and the heating engineer who put the insert to me (good work, finally).
At my mother-in-law's, neither the heating plumber nor the electrician finished the work. After receiving 2/3 of the quote, they left for other sites. And since my mother-in-law does not have the money to take action ... She even lost the help of the ANAH that she should have since the work is not finished ...
A TV report gave more than 50% rate of poor workmanship.
Today I renovate my house during my holidays, weekends and evenings.
My electrical installation was checked by Véritas (I telecommute and therefore the installation was tested) and the technician found it top. He just gave me an advice for the lightning arrester: put the conductor as large as possible to connect it to the ground.
Whether plumbing, frame, insulation, plasterboard, I do everything myself. And the level by hand while the masons sometimes do it by eye (result a door pillar leaning 8cm / 2m or 4% upside down).
When I calculate with the VAT rate the hypothetical tax credit and what costs a professional in whom I will no longer have confidence and who risks taking me for a c .. I prefer to do at my own pace and by myself- even.
The downside is that I am less on my keyboard if not to search for practical practical and that I am more in action.
Last point, the qualibat, EDF / GDF or other certifications, once the artisans have their stamp, they do what they want, and what they want most is money quickly.

[chatelot16]

it's the big mess

building a way to save energy should be a good activity, alas the sad bazaar of tax credit and regulatory obscurantism encourages scammers and rots the market

the state completely missed what to do

it would have been necessary to favor the construction of good material and the sale of good material well available, to favor the work of the craftsmen and the handyman

alas the state wanted to promote only the activity of craftsmen meeting restrictive standards ... and it is the crooks who are the best to take advantage of the twisted regulations

the state therefore favored scammers, and discouraged people full of goodwill and skill

[Exnihiloest]

I recently called on two solid companies to replace a boiler and replace a large number of roller shutters with better insulated ones. There is still a front door to go.

Although of course we negotiated, the two young salespeople I saw were not carpet dealers. They had the technical skills and did not take you for manipulative naïves (level at least Bac + 3 I think, see business school).

So we did business, and I was in no way disappointed with the quality of the work, even if I am unable to assess the economic benefit (I had not done it for that).
So unlike other speakers, I note that there are companies that choose the right materials and do a good job, but you have to pay the price. Without the tax credit, it is unlikely that I would have started.
If I had done the job myself, I would have spent four times more time and not at all sure that the result would have been better. However time has a price, very expensive even on a human life, that also tips the balance.

The only blocking points are the price to pay for the quality on the one hand, and the limits of the technical solutions.
We are surprised to miss solutions not because of technical impossibility, but following the few requests for the type of product. Companies seem to be stuck with products on the shelf and unable to tailor-make. They install but do not adapt or little, the separation between production and installation is complete.

[Grelinette]

Hello,

The town hall of my town had launched in 2012 an operation to encourage renovation. A service has been created as well as an association and several information meetings have been organized.
In addition, a list of partner companies identified as competent has been drawn up and given to interested parties.

To begin with, the organized meetings, certainly interesting, but the testimonies showed that the successful sites were mainly because the owner already knew the subject well and could make objective choices (chosen solutions, materials, prices, ...) as well as '' monitoring and verification of works.

It appeared that the neophyte in the matter was unable to say if this or that company quote or advice was consistent, in this case some companies sold solutions and unsuitable advice, but did everything to convince that their products were suitable. (choice of insulation materials, solar thermal / electric choice, ...)

The municipal service also provided a list of partners identified as competent in relation to the objectives set, the charter established, and the procedure to be followed before, during and after work:

1. Energy Performance Diagnosis,
2. possibly contact the Energy Info Space to obtain information on these recommendations or on the financial assistance to which you can claim,
3. Contact the different professionals who will have to intervene
4. Financial package
5. Realization of the works
6. Evaluation of energy performance after works, with visit 2 years after works

In reality, having tried the experience, it is a real obstacle course, in particular because the independent partners identified have only given an agreement in principle on their adhesion to the project of the municipality, and when we have them Contacted, it was very difficult to reach coordinates for each trade and the companies tended to advise us of other partners with whom they used to work rather than those recommended by the city hall service.

Finally, each preliminary study or advice was subject to invoicing (admittedly minimal of a few hundred euros), and in the end the costs before works seemed already significant without it being possible to assess them precisely and know what and how it would serve.

There was significant communication with many documents distributed, but all of these documents seemed more theoretical and paved with good intentions rather than genuinely objective and concrete. (I have just found some of these documents if you are interested (*)).

In short after having spent several days trying to put the device into practice, we threw in the towel and we went through a company that was not in the device. It was easier even if, in the end, a certain number of jobs were botched.

Finally, note that at the level of the quotes received for the same site (renovation of roofs with installation of insulation), the prices varied from simple to more than triple! (not to mention some mind-boggling non-standard quotes).

(*) give me an email in MP if you want me to send you the documents concerning this municipal aid system for renovation.

[elephant]

The rules are always the same:

- publish specifications which must be referenced in the offers, attached to the offer.
- include the terms of payment in the specifications and the offer
- assess the unexpected and check if the request is complete (in public procurement, companies like the unexpected, because they are carried out without a quote)
- include the execution times, dates and deadlines in the offer (knowing the execution time allows you to negotiate the labor position)
- request several offers
- ask friends and neighbors who they are happy with
- know in advance the price of materials
- take it easy on down payments: 15% when ordering is a maximum when delays are long. Propose other formulas such as the payment of materials on arrival on site, for example and liquidations by installments.
- compensate for the absence of deposits with bank guarantees
- always link the payments to the good end: the unpaid must allow to pay another company to finish the work.

to be a philosopher:

think that a business that needs comfortable down payments is not financially "comfortable".
tell yourself that a company that is not able to subscribe to a specification is not reliable

to be "cow"

ask the entrepreneur as soon as the estimate is drawn up if he has posted workers with Syldaves or borders (Bolkenstein directive) and use them to reduce the labor component: they cost 15 to 20 euros per hour great max, no need to pay 40 or 50 euros an hour.

Well, of course if it is for construction sites of 2.000 euros, you will be sent to the devil, but when it is 20.000 ...

For cross-border commuters:

ask Belgian prices .....

a thing:

in Belgium, accountants have access to the tax authorities database, which allows them to know whether companies are in good standing for VAT, taxes and social security contributions. Important because you could be held jointly responsible for unpaid taxes.

[GrayBibile]

this is finally a very relevant and interesting question. Like many, I am not the only one who has a bad eye on the artisans of energy renovation. When we still lived in the north of the country, either it ended in trial, or it ended in payment of 2/3 but recovery only of a tiny part of the sum, or nothing at all. It was difficult to resell the house to live in the southeast, with this perpetual construction site at home. Now we have no problem because the son-in-law is a craftsman and he knows the environment, so he always advises us on the people he trusts. It was only after we had really nice jobs that are worth our money. We have done a lot of heating, roofing, wall and cellar work to reduce energy consumption.

[simplino]

Even the pros recognize this reality of too many faults, which are damaging to the serious pro, by destroying all confidence and anxiety, as for the terrorists !!!
Renewable energy: deceptive marketing practices revealed by the DGCCRF
http://www.batiactu.com/edito/environ-5 ... dium=edito

If you want to avoid, you need to know much more than the pros, ask lots of questions and given the technical complexity that explodes for everything, it's very difficult to know everything !!