Time tracking operation on boiler OKOFEN

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
User avatar
Pear Belle Helene
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 389
Registration: 16/05/07, 09:21
Location: South
x 1




by Pear Belle Helene » 09/12/08, 17:32

What is the temperature that the boiler "sees" because it sees perhaps 20 ° and you cannot blame it. it depends on where the thermostat is placed, whether it is properly calibrated or not, etc.


The boiler sees the same temperature as me in the house, I checked it several times.

This morning it was 21 ° when I left at 8am and there it is 21 ° 5 so it's better than yesterday or we had this feeling of suffocation.

When my heating engineer is very available and would come back to make changes if I ask him but I also need to know how to do some stuff myself because I will not disturb him every week because I am too hot or cold. I note on a notebook my statements and my mods and when it comes I show him. He only installed 4 so he is a little groped too, he also asked me the link to follow the thread of this discussion because I told him that you give a lot of advice and that for some it was too complicated for me (blondie the return : Mrgreen: )

I'm waiting to see Didier's advice to see if it is properly calibrated.

Thanks for your help boys.
0 x
dirk pitt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2081
Registration: 10/01/08, 14:16
Location: isere
x 68




by dirk pitt » 09/12/08, 17:39

if you have set the room thermostat to 20 °, your thermometer AND the boilers see 21 °, so far, there is nothing too abnormal (1 ° more) especially that it must then calm down to go back down to 20 °
on the other hand, if it stays at 21 ° AND the radiators stay warm enough, it means that the heating curve needs to be adapted.

if it is outside temperature> 5 ° you have to touch the base of the curve
if it is outside temp <5 ° you have to touch the slope

i think i will make my little excel file
0 x
Image
Click my signature
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 10/12/08, 09:00

Did67 wrote:
3) I still have a doubt as to whether the correction factor is correctly programmed with you. I will bring out my doc this evening to give you the reference of this factor on the regulation and so that you tell me if it is at zero or not! If it was at zero (factory setting), that would explain why your boiler does not "react" as you say. It was the case at home, before I hack ...



To check the correction factor, it is parameter 3-6 (the button just above the line, on the left, when you remove the plastic cap from your regulation (not the boiler). You press this button (n any side, it's a "toggle" - left or + right). If you see 0, that would explain that your inner probe has no influence. It's as if it has no influence, because it multiplies the difference in interior temperature observed by this figure to correct the leaving water temperature.

Ex: you want 20 ° C; the interior probe "sees" (or "sees") 18,7 ° C; there is a deviation of 1,3 °; if your parameter 3-6 is on 0, the regulation corrects by 1,3 x 0 = 0! If it is 5, it corrects (increases) the starting temperature by 1,3 x 5 = 6,5 ° C, so it heats up more and the difference will be absorbed ... It also corrects in the other meaning, if it is too hot, it lowers the starting temperature ...

Check this before any search for more complex maneuvers.

Factory, it's 0.

As for "seeing", my observations:

1) the probes are very sensitive; I frequently have a 1 ° difference between what my probe is (fixed to a wall) and a thermometer like a "weather station" placed on a shelf 30 cm from the wall, and 2 meters from the probe. This same station has an exterior sensor, placed just next to the boiler one: same, frequent deviations of the order of one degree ...

Explanation: the wall is 30 cm thick, it is load-bearing and therefore made of concrete ... It has a very strong inertia ... The interior probe is aimed above. The station is made of melamine-style Chinese plastics ... 30 cm from the wall (in hollow brick), it "follows" temperature variations very quickly ...

2) No need to take the cabbage for deviations of less than 1 ° C; the difference is less than the uncertainties on the measurement method ...

3) I repeat: 20 ° C on a probe, but depending on our mood, and our activity, it will be "hot" or "cold" ... So there too, it is not because the thermometer displays a decimal after the comma that you have to quibble ...
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 10/12/08, 09:03

dirk pitt wrote:
i think i will make my little excel file


I have some on average operating times, with reading about every 8/10 days ...

I do not make smodifs that at the time of a statement, so that I see the influence.
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 10/12/08, 09:07

dirk pitt wrote:
in passing also check what the boiler "sees" concerning the outside temperature because an outside sensor badly positioned (too close to a window or door or well exposed to the sun) distorts the regulation.


A classic gag: an outdoor probe that takes the rain; it's windy ; evaporation of water cools the probe, which infers that it is much, much colder (deviation of a few degrees).

Put on a "little hat" like a nesting box but leave the probe in the open air!
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 10/12/08, 09:31

dirk pitt wrote:if the boiler sees 20 ° whereas it is actually 22 °, you can act with a parameter indicated by did67 it is a correction that says to the boiler: "OK, you take the temperature read + 2 ° and worse that's all."
.


I correct you: the compensation factor is the multiplier coefficient between the difference observed (difference in internal temperature desired - internal temperature measured) by the internal probe (if there is one) and the correction of the flow temperature of the 'water...

See the numerical example given to Poire Belle Hélène.

We always converge towards the desired temperature. We don't move it. Gradually, the increase in the water flow temperature decreases, until it reaches the calculated value when the desired temperature is reached ...
0 x
User avatar
Pear Belle Helene
Éconologue good!
Éconologue good!
posts: 389
Registration: 16/05/07, 09:21
Location: South
x 1




by Pear Belle Helene » 10/12/08, 18:45

Thank you Didier for the info, I'll check it all tomorrow.

And if it's ever on 0, I put it on how much me : Mrgreen: ?

My indoor probe and my personal thermometer are in the same place in the kitchen.
0 x
dirk pitt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2081
Registration: 10/01/08, 14:16
Location: isere
x 68




by dirk pitt » 11/12/08, 10:10

clarification:

there are two pieces of information that the boiler receives from the room thermostat:
-1: temperature setpoint: this is the value of the dial
-2: the current ambient temperature value.

the first is always taken into account.

if the parameter indicated by did is 0, only the setpoint (+ outside temp) is used to calculate the water temperature of the radiator.
this is the meaning of the inclined line at the pivot point on the diagram below.
the heating curve must therefore be perfectly adjusted because the boiler does not (a priori) look at the actual value of ambient temperature.

numerical teaching example (you can check the values ​​on the graph)
The calculator says: I am asked 21 ° of atmosphere, it is -5 ° outside, let's look at my right (slope = 1,2 and foot = 30 °, it takes 59 ° C of starting temperature.
if we change the setpoint for 19 ° of ambient, the right is shifted down and to the left, the radiator flow temperature becomes 52 °

the compensation parameter allows to correct the theoretical calculated value of flow temperature because there may be disturbing phenomena which cause the heating line (even if properly set) is not correct: example, I cook and I 3 pans on the fire + the oven on. this heat supply is not expected.
the number of the parameter is the "influence factor" on the theoretical temperature.
if it is at 1, the influence will be weak, if it is at 3 the influence will be strong.
it also corrects a poorly adjusted heating line, but that is not the primary goal.

Belle Helene, I advise you to set this parameter to 2 first

on my example with 19 ° of atmosphere and 52 ° c of theoretical departure temp, if in reality it is already 21 ° with these parameters but the compensation is set to 2, the departure temp will drop to 52+ (19-21) x2 = 48 °

if this parameter is at 0 of origin (I do not remember it), it is not clever because as the line of heating is a trick difficult to regulate, the heating engineers would have everything to gain by regulating it at 3 or 4 to compensate.

sorry, the graph is in german

Image
0 x
Image

Click my signature
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 11/12/08, 11:29

dirk pitt wrote:
if this parameter is at 0 of origin (I do not remember it), it is not clever because as the line of heating is a trick difficult to regulate, the heating engineers would have everything to gain by regulating it at 3 or 4 to compensate.




100% agree. It's exactly that.

Two shades:

1) I will put a more important factor (4 or 5), to see how it reacts (I am currently at 4, but with heated floors)

2) The factory setting is zero because the room sensor is an option ... This is the only reason, in my opinion. But Okofen should better brief its installers so that they can correct it.

Mine, a heating engineer, whom I also said was excellent, had not corrected the factor! And so I spent several days wondering why the boiler did not react (very "solar" living room, so I found myself with 24/25 ° C and the boiler running - so I had to take out my doc to discover this factor 3 - 6).
0 x
User avatar
Did67
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 20362
Registration: 20/01/08, 16:34
Location: Alsace
x 8685




by Did67 » 11/12/08, 11:40

Pear Belle Helene wrote:Thank you Didier for the info, I'll check it all tomorrow.

And if it's ever on 0, I put it on how much me: mrgreen:?

My indoor probe and my personal thermometer are in the same place in the kitchen.


Dirk tells you 2. I say 5 "to start". Here you are stuck between the two of us, you put 3 and you can already see if suddenly, your desired temperature is better respected.

You already tell us if it was still on zero, just for our ego! We will not be proud ...

My example on the probes was just to say that the indications of the probes must be put into perspective. Even if there is a number after the decimal point, the indications are often to the nearest degree, due to the position, situation, nature of the support. So do not look for adjustments to the decimal point, it simply does not make sense!

It is very good if they are next to each other. But there may still be deviations because in principle, the probes calibrate! Do not panic for that ...
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 160 guests