Filling boiler HS France innova 30

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
boumbocox
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by boumbocox » 20/11/22, 22:09

Here is a quick diagram that shows the principle of the installation.
I did it with the gas boiler connected to the coil.

What do you think? will the coil allow enough heat exchange?
I specify that I do everything myself: installation of the gas and wood boiler... that's why I flounder sometimes!!

Thank you for your feedback

Good night
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by sicetaitsimple » 20/11/22, 23:01

Of course you can do what you want...
But connecting the wood boiler via the upper exchanger (coil) would not necessarily be stupid, especially for domestic hot water outside the heating period.
As well as the connection of the "cold" return of the heating circuit by the "low" coil. Your gas boiler will certainly not accept "cold" water temperatures of 40° to 50°C without starting to mess around if it "pumps" directly into the tank.
It's just my opinion, I could be wrong, it's up to you, that said, modifying connections is always possible if you realize that it is not working properly.
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dede2002
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by dede2002 » 21/11/22, 21:37

Hi Bumbocox,

I don't find your diagram logical which separates the two boilers, you have two expansion tanks?

The balloon is only used to store the energy of the wood boiler, at high power, and send it back to the radiators. The gas boiler heats the radiators directly, when the wood boiler is off*, it must not heat the tank (unless you have a gas tariff at off-peak hours :P ). All this with the same water. The coils are used for solar (another water), or for DHW (which you did not draw).

* The wood boiler flue gas sensor shuts off the gas boiler, and controls a v3v for the radiator circuit.
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boumbocox
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by boumbocox » 21/11/22, 22:30

Hello,
For if it was simple, I'm afraid putting the wood boiler on the coil isn't optimal. The wood boiler is 30KW, the coil will be too small in fact the boiler may rise too much in temperature.

For dede2002, yes there are two expansion tanks, one on each boiler. I made a very (too!) simplistic diagram: inside the buffer tank of 1500lts there is a coil on the top, one on the bottom and a tank for the DHW. So I don't need a coil for the sanitary water. On the bottom coil, I was thinking of putting a pellet stove there and why on the top coil to put the gas boiler (as for the ECS in fact).

Do you think the heat exchange will be large enough?

As you say the disadvantage of this system is that the return water will maintain the tank at 25/30°C, another disadvantage is that there will be some loss by the gas boiler.

I have in mind to put a pellet stove and remove the gas boiler. He will take over when there will be a long absence at home... but that's in the future! for the moment I am at my gas boiler connection with (or not) the coil.

IF anyone has an opinion on the feasibility?

Good night

Nicolas
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by sicetaitsimple » 21/11/22, 22:48

boumbocox wrote:Hello,
For if it was simple, I'm afraid putting the wood boiler on the coil isn't optimal. The wood boiler is 30KW, the coil will be too small in fact the boiler may rise too much in temperature.

If you have the brand and type of your ball, it should be easy to find the characteristics of it on the internet.
But unless really surprised, which I do not believe, the upper coil in this type of tank is precisely made to accept the production of a "high" temperature wood-style boiler, in addition to a "low" temperature "style" supply. solar thermal" on the bottom coil.
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dede2002
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by dede2002 » 22/11/22, 17:07

Hello,

Ok I understood the principle, so in the summer you are going to heat the 1500 liter tank to make DHW?

I guess it's well insulated,

For if it were simple, with the high power of the wood-fired boiler, the water from the balloon is circulated in the boiler, the coil would have difficulty following. Especially if it is at the top, the hot water does not go down!
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by sicetaitsimple » 22/11/22, 17:30

dede2002 wrote:For if it were simple, with the high power of the wood-fired boiler, the water from the balloon is circulated in the boiler, the coil would have difficulty following. Especially if it is at the top, the hot water does not go down!

You are certainly smarter than all the builders of this type of balloon.... : roll:
Of course there is a circulator.
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dede2002
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by dede2002 » 22/11/22, 17:34

Why make it simple when you can make it complicated?...

For my part, I wouldn't have done it like that, but we're not going to argue about it :)
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boumbocox
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by boumbocox » 22/11/22, 17:56

Hello,
The boiler is an HS France Innova 30 with a 1500 liter HS France KSTS-2 tank.
Yes, this tank will also make domestic hot water but without using the coils.

Dede2002, you got it how this balloon works, do you think I can take the hot water (heating) to put it in the gas boiler input?
Will there be enough heat exchange? For me, it should do it but if someone can confirm it?

Thank you for your help
Nicolas
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Filling boiler HS France innova 30




by sicetaitsimple » 22/11/22, 19:12

boumbocox wrote:Hello,

Dede2002, you got it how this balloon works, do you think I can take the hot water (heating) to put it in the gas boiler input?
Will there be enough heat exchange? For me, it should do it but if someone can confirm it?


The problem is not only how to connect, but how to regulate?
Earlier, I wrote:But how do you plan to make it work in terms of regulation? Between "all tank" operation, mixed "tank+gas boiler" operation and possibly "all gas boiler" operation?.
Your simplified diagram does not answer this question, which I can understand. But it's not just by passing the "hot" water from the balloon (either directly or via a coil) through the gas boiler that it will work! Your gas boiler will no longer know where to turn.
At certain times (after a good fire in the wood, for example), the temperature of the water in the tank will be higher than the "hot" water temperature which would normally be produced by your gas boiler.
In short, I do not think that the problem of exchange capacity is particularly crucial. The coils( if
use of coils) seem generously sized.
The problem is that it works correctly whatever the demand (mid-season, mid-winter) and whatever your diligence on the use of the wood boiler.
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