Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ...Yack heat pump, adjustment?

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
phil59
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Yack heat pump, adjustment?

Unread Messageby phil59 » 03/10/20, 11:20

Hello,

I have an OCCAZ heat pump, installed by a friend and myself, "yak" series, which works perfectly, but which I wish to integrate "better" into my heating system.

I have an old 50kW gas boiler, a boiler wood stove, a 500L buffer tank. (I have a heating volume of around 1000m3).

Currently, the stove alone is insufficient, but I have a sensor on the tank, and if in the middle of winter and 0 outside, for example, I control the boiler as needed, such as, if tank <40 °, the boiler heats up to 'that the ball is at 42 °, for example ....

I would like to put a dry contact of the same order on the pump, and there I have not yet found how.

Contact which would say, if the balloon at Xtp, heats up to, and stops, and in addition, an outside probe, which says, if outside tp <5 °, for example (tp that I have not yet determined), the pump does not heat up, and there it is the gas which takes over.

Well, in short, need to find where to put a dry contact ...

Here is what I found as a notice ....
notice

If someone had an idea, serious, because not want to burn the motherboard ....

So to summarize, where to put a dry contact to start or stop the pump, I am not talking about the water law .... it will be in a new epise of the adventures of .... :D

Edit addition of the diagram: heating-insulation / heat-pump-control-t16570-10.html # p413407

Image
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phil59
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Re: Heat pump, regulation

Unread Messageby phil59 » 04/10/20, 15:20

A priori it does not inspire anyone ....
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Heat pump, regulation

Unread Messageby sicetaitsimple » 04/10/20, 15:42

phil59 wrote:A priori it does not inspire anyone ....


Admit it's a little tricky! To try to move the schmilblick forward, how is it currently managed?
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phil59
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Re: Heat pump, regulation

Unread Messageby phil59 » 04/10/20, 18:52

This is not a reproach !

It is controlled by the wall box.
The one we see on page 23 and on.

A priori, no dry contact on it, it is "multiplexed" ....
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Re: Heat pump, regulation

Unread Messageby sicetaitsimple » 04/10/20, 19:20

Okay, we'll understand each other!
When I asked "how is it driven", those were the settings I was talking about.
Outdoor shutdown temperature (if there is one?), Hot water outlet temperature setpoint? Possibility of varying them via the existing regulation system?
I imagine you've already thought about all this, so the question as you ask it is a bit "steep", for lack of description of how it works today.
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phil59
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Re: Heat pump, regulation

Unread Messageby phil59 » 04/10/20, 20:18

What matters to me, in my installation, is to be able to have a tp in my buffer tank, which varies depending on the outdoor tp, the needs for the house at first.

Currently, I only have two sources, the stove, and the boiler.

I only control the boiler, to have a tp in the balloon, if the stove does not work, the boiler provides "everything".

The boiler, the tp is set to 70-80 °, depending on cold, very cold, etc ....

When it is not very cold, the pump will do the maximum, because it will have a good "performance".
I haven't figured out the exact values ​​yet. For example, currently, it was set, roughly, at 40 ° at the start, and 30 ° on the return. This is sufficient, with the pump buffer tank between 50-100L.

The tp having decreased and the humidity having increased, need a little more consistency, and I put the 500L ball back in the loop.
To heat the 500L, I put the boiler in operation, like an hour, so that the tank already has an average tp.

There, in fact the pump has maintained for a few days the 500L balloon, can be adjusted from the start of the pump to 45 ° and return to 35 ° ++, to be determined, the idea is to run it for a long time , but not at high power.

Currently, having the balloon at 60 ° is useless. When it gets much colder, probably yes. But between 2 I will have needs at 45 ° more or less constant ...

I do not know the "true" efficiency of the pump, but roughly, between 3 and 5 °, probably cut off of the pump, not yet determined at what exact tp, I will no longer operate it.

On this, the stove works more or less, depending on the needs, the desire to see the flame, etc.

If the tank's tp is sufficient, no need to turn on the pump ....

The ideal would be, with jeedom or other, to really control the whole, with the starting and returning tp of the pump, for example ... and there even more need for a dry contact.

But I'm not there yet ....

I also still have a little insulation to do, but I'm getting to the end, more to gain ... being hyper hyper optimistic, it's less than 10% ....

So much for the general idea ...
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Re: Heat pump, regulation

Unread Messageby sicetaitsimple » 04/10/20, 20:46

phil59 wrote:When it is not very cold, the pump will do the maximum, because it will have a good "performance".
I haven't figured out the exact values ​​yet. For example, currently, it was set, roughly, at 40 ° at the start, and 30 ° on the return. This is sufficient, with the pump buffer tank between 50-100L.

The tp having decreased and the humidity having increased, need a little more consistency, and I put the 500L ball back in the loop.
To heat the 500L, I put the boiler in operation, like an hour, so that the tank already has an average tp.



I understand (but maybe wrong?) That today the heat pump does not contribute to the heating of the 500l tank?
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phil59
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Re: Heat pump, regulation

Unread Messageby phil59 » 04/10/20, 22:22

Yes, yes, currently, it maintains it.

But I couldn't get the buffer tank from 17-18 °, quickly, to 35-40 °.

I wouldn't have had enough to maintain the house.

For the past few days, I have been "programming" the pump, so that it runs 2-3 hours at intervals, but not cool ...

I think it would be good for it to stop in the car, and trigger again, when for example when the ball drops from 42 to 40 °, and until 42 °, no need to climb above.

For the moment quite simple, because tp >>>>>>>> 10 °, after to see ....
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Re: Heat pump, regulation

Unread Messageby izentrop » 05/10/20, 15:32

Hello,
1000 m3 is within 400 m2.
If the water circuit is large, the buffer tank is not necessary. At 10 ° the Pac has a very favorable Cop.
Why not leave it running continuously and harmonize the water laws?
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phil59
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Re: Heat pump, regulation

Unread Messageby phil59 » 05/10/20, 18:14

Yes, roughly, and 3.2m high ceiling on the ground floor, and 3m upstairs.

Let's say about 150-160L in all the circuit.

Small balloon for the pump.

The 500L balloon allows to have a good inertia of the system, and more to "regulate" so that the pump pulls to the minimum.

It's true that currently, the 500l is a bit too much, but I'm testing for cooler days.

I think it is better for the pump to run as long as possible, but at low energy consumption, rather than big starts at high power, and small downtimes, and to have return tps quite close to the tps of departure.

It seems to me to have read, that if I had 6 °, between departure and arrival, that would be very good, for the output ...

Currently, the heating tp is more between 40-45 ° ....

I also think that up to 10 ° outside, the yield will be excellent. Below 5, I have great doubts, 3 I do not mention it, and the pump would be stopped during this time.

Where can I find a day-to-day tp statement, more or less per hour, for my sector? I found one, from a solar panel site, but it's a bit dated, just to estimate the number of hours per year the pump will run.

So, I have to find a dry contact, to "program" the pump according to my needs, and then, to adjust the starting and return tp of the pump, automatically, as needed ....

I think it will be done over 1-2 years, just to find the correct calibration values, depending on external tp, and need.

I started to see how to flash my sonoff boxes, to integrate them into jeedom. I also saw how to control solenoid valves ...
A big job all that, and I get back to linux a little, I forgot a lot, not very much practiced these last 15 years linux ....
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