Another thread on the regulation of a boiler (Easypell)

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
Louislaws
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 13/12/21, 19:17
x 1

Another thread on the regulation of a boiler (Easypell)




by Louislaws » 17/12/21, 00:15

Hello,

It will be long, I am sorry for that !

My parents are new owners of a 12kWh Easypell. House of approximately 130m2, 9 cast iron radiators and 3 in steel. Outdoor sensor, room sensor, and thermostatic valves.

I get straight to the point:
The installer told us that it was sufficient to leave the setpoint temperature at 22 ° (stop hysteresis 1,5k, start hysteresis 1,0k, “room probe influence” at 5) and set the desired temperature in the different rooms using thermostatic valves… we therefore had difficulty understanding the usefulness of the outdoor sensor and the room thermostat.

I explain where I am with the settings after spending a lot of hours reading everything that seemed relevant to me on these forums :

1. Now, the comfort setpoint is at 18,5 °, still with stop hysteresis at 1,5k, and start hysteresis at 1,0k (the boiler cuts at 20 ° and starts up again at 19 ° ... existence the figure “18.5” therefore loses a little meaning for me…). Room probe influence at 1.

1a. Reduced setpoint for the night 16,5 ° (hysteresis, etc., idem).
The boiler starts up again at 17 °, usually around 3-4 a.m., to reach the set point, alias 16,5 + 1,5, less than an hour later.

2. The "reference room", with its radiators fully, reaches said temperatures quite easily: today the boiler has cut 6 times (we are at home all day, mother and son working from home + father and son renovating) and she had running times between 22 minutes and 90 minutes.
This “reference room” heats up less quickly than all the others, which is why we chose it (we usually recommend using the living room, but my parents don't have a “living room”… in the evening my mother has fun all alone in her corner, and my father the same).

3. Result: I read a lot on the water law and even tried settings (to have “less hot” water). However, even by lowering the base of the curve as much as possible, the boiler sends water to the radiators at around 60 ° minimum (the ambient probe influence was indeed at 0 in these cases), which is largely sufficient to reach and exceed the setpoint temperature, so it is impossible to have very long cycles if the valves in the reference room are left open.
(Original water-dependent settings: foot of curve at 35 °, slope at 1,4).

Basically, I (/ think I have) figured out that pellet boilers like longer cycles without too many cuts (and that pellet consumption level may be preferable).
That's what I'm trying to accomplish — but, without making it artificially impossible to reach the set temperature by turning off the faucets in the reference room a bit, I don't know what else to do.

When we use this method, the boiler does not cut (or very very rarely), it zigzags between the modulation of its power to heat the water and the “post-combustion”.

Over the last ~ 10 days we have consumed ~ 16 bags of pellets (15kg bags).

It goes without saying that we are indeed looking for the best possible efficiency, as well as settings that will satisfy the boiler. At least we're not cold anymore (system installed mid-November and before that… nothing)! However, we have a bit of a hard time appreciating what looks like over-complexity right now.

Is there a simple little detail or tip that I missed? I'm really starting to have a hard time thinking clearly on this topic.

Any information and perspective will be welcome!

Thank you!

(Please excuse any linguistic peculiarities, French is unfortunately not my mother tongue.)
1 x

Pilpoill
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 71
Registration: 12/11/17, 09:55
x 12

Re: Another thread on setting a boiler (Easypell)




by Pilpoill » 17/12/21, 11:09

Hello,

The Easypell is just an Okofen with less sophistication and will do the job if you need to spend a little time on it in the beginning.

A very good point there is an outside sensor, a room thermostat, and a will on your part not to stupidly follow the advice, to say the least, surprising from the heating engineer. : Shock:
Is there a motorized v3v on the hydraulic unit?

Is this boiler connected?
Do you have any operating curves to show us?

PS: the boiler which cuts the heating circulator to restart it in ON / OFF mode is the fault of unsuitable settings.
Unless there is external heat input (sun, fireplace, oven), the circulator must start at the start of the heating range to shut off at the end of the heating range.
1 x
Pilpoill
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 71
Registration: 12/11/17, 09:55
x 12

Re: Another thread on setting a boiler (Easypell)




by Pilpoill » 19/12/21, 09:25

I want to help you, but without any answer, without visibility on the curves or even additional questions it will be complicated to help you more :?

You have to beat the iron while it's hot as they say around my house : Wink:
1 x
Louislaws
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 13/12/21, 19:17
x 1

Re: Another thread on setting a boiler (Easypell)




by Louislaws » 19/12/21, 11:30

Hello Pilpoill!

First of all, thank you very much for your time to answer me, it is much appreciated, and please excuse the delay of my answer. As we are in a fairly heavy renovation phase here, at the end of the day it's a glass of wine and sleep ... I wanted to take the time to answer you properly.

Pilpoill wrote:Is there a motorized v3v on the hydraulic unit?

Yes.
Image

Pilpoill wrote:Is this boiler connected?
Do you have any operating curves to show us?

The boiler is not connected, we have the Easytouch control panel which seems to be a very light version of the Pelletronic Touch.
I have access to the curves in it but I have no idea how to export them. I have gone through all the menus many times, there is a "Save" button in the "General" menu, but it doesn't seem to do anything ... I put a USB stick in the socket on the back of the Easytouch and hit "Save" ... nothing.

Maybe I could analogically write down what details you need?

Pilpoill wrote:the circulator must start at the start of the heating range to switch off at the end of the heating range.

This is essentially what we were able to simulate by adjusting the thermostatic valves in the reference room with great precision, to hover around the set temperature.
I tested this method more consistently this weekend by carefully monitoring the curves, and the boiler did not cut the circulator (once I think, by mistake on my part) until the end of the heating range, obviously because T ° stop hysteresis not reached.

In fact, all of my doubts about the operation of the system originate from my readings on the water law, a method that seems impossible to (better) use in our case since the starting temperatures do not seem to be able to drop. below ~ 60 °. The starting T ° never corresponds to the set starting T ° ... Which seems logical to me anyway since I do not see where this cold water would come from to make an exact mixture ...

You see that I speak to myself a little while trying to understand how it works ... So I stop there!

Thanks again !
0 x
Pilpoill
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 71
Registration: 12/11/17, 09:55
x 12

Re: Another thread on setting a boiler (Easypell)




by Pilpoill » 19/12/21, 14:22

LouisLaws wrote:Hello Pilpoill!

First of all, thank you very much for your time to answer me, it is much appreciated, and please excuse the delay of my answer. As we are in a fairly heavy renovation phase here, at the end of the day it's a glass of wine and sleep ... I wanted to take the time to answer you properly.

Pilpoill wrote:Is there a motorized v3v on the hydraulic unit?

Yes.


Pilpoill wrote:Is this boiler connected?
Do you have any operating curves to show us?

The boiler is not connected, we have the Easytouch control panel which seems to be a very light version of the Pelletronic Touch.
I have access to the curves in it but I have no idea how to export them. I have gone through all the menus many times, there is a "Save" button in the "General" menu, but it doesn't seem to do anything ... I put a USB stick in the socket on the back of the Easytouch and hit "Save" ... nothing.

Maybe I could analogically write down what details you need?

Pilpoill wrote:the circulator must start at the start of the heating range to switch off at the end of the heating range.

This is essentially what we were able to simulate by adjusting the thermostatic valves in the reference room with great precision, to hover around the set temperature.
I tested this method more consistently this weekend by carefully monitoring the curves, and the boiler did not cut the circulator (once I think, by mistake on my part) until the end of the heating range, obviously because T ° stop hysteresis not reached.

In fact, all of my doubts about the operation of the system originate from my readings on the water law, a method that seems impossible to (better) use in our case since the starting temperatures do not seem to be able to drop. below ~ 60 °. The starting T ° never corresponds to the set starting T ° ... Which seems logical to me anyway since I do not see where this cold water would come from to make an exact mixture ...

You see that I speak to myself a little while trying to understand how it works ... So I stop there!

Thanks again !


Hello LouisLaws,

If there's a glass of mulled wine for me, too, I'm willing to wait! : Mrgreen:

More seriously : Wink:
I do not see the photo of your v3v.

You tell me about EasyTouch which allows you to visualize operating curves; it seems to correspond to what I would like to see.
For example, here are the curves (taken from an Easypell) that I would need to help you better:

51EDA3F4-EAE3-416E-9972-F926548EFD93.jpeg


To get the files once they are configured like on my visual, just insert a blank and formatted usb key and leave it connected for ten minutes without any other manipulation.
(For the save option, it seems to me that you have to be in installer access to then be able to save the configuration of your parameters but at this stage they are useless to us).

If your boiler only knows how to send water at 60 ° C to your radiators, this is not normal at all, it remains to find where the anomaly is located.
The v3v mixes the return water from the radiators with that heated by the boiler to obtain a flow temperature in accordance with that calculated by the water law.

To be continued, as soon as you can :)
0 x

Louislaws
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 13/12/21, 19:17
x 1

Re: Another thread on setting a boiler (Easypell)




by Louislaws » 19/12/21, 19:59

Hello Pilpoill again!

Sorry, I used the wrong method to share the image, here it is:

IMG_20211217_145554.jpg
IMG_20211217_145554.jpg (124.34 KB) Viewed times 3553


And here is the curve for today, "DHW1 T start" and "DHW1 Setpoint" were unfortunately not available as options. Small cut at 17 p.m. because of lack of pellets ...

graph_20211219.png
graph_20211219.png (166.66 KiB) Viewed 3553 times


Pilpoill wrote:If your boiler only knows how to send water at 60 ° C to your radiators, this is not normal at all, it remains to find where the anomaly is located.

I poorly expressed myself, as you can see on the curve, it's not that the boiler is sending which 60 °, is that during a heating range the flow temperature never corresponds to the set flow temperature, it is at minimum 55-60 °, up to ~ 70 ° (if I understand the curves correctly).

Thanks again and have a glass of mulled wine, it's my (virtual) tour!
0 x
Pilpoill
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 71
Registration: 12/11/17, 09:55
x 12

Re: Another thread on setting a boiler (Easypell)




by Pilpoill » 19/12/21, 20:24

Error on my part, to be deleted : Oops:
Last edited by Pilpoill the 19 / 12 / 21, 20: 26, 3 edited once.
0 x
Pilpoill
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 71
Registration: 12/11/17, 09:55
x 12

Re: Another thread on setting a boiler (Easypell)




by Pilpoill » 19/12/21, 20:25

Very first thing to do SI your network is made up of radiators as indicated in your first post !!

Currently the circulator is on 6 on the right (as indicated by my red arrow).

It must be on the left side like my green arrow, put it for the moment on the value 2,5 / 3

BAFC6A15-0899-429E-A469-C48D133624E5.jpeg



Second thing to do, check where the flow temp sensor is connected to the heating network.
Logically it MUST be fixed on the pipe located above the red thermometer and there I have some doubt about this fact.
In view of the values ​​given by the TD probe (flow temperature), the v3v must certainly open and close permanently : Shock:
0 x
Louislaws
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 5
Registration: 13/12/21, 19:17
x 1

Re: Another thread on setting a boiler (Easypell)




by Louislaws » 20/12/21, 20:30

Thanks again Pilpoill!

For the probe, I think it is good where it should be?
IMG_20211220_084122.jpg
IMG_20211220_084122.jpg (110.2 KB) Viewed times 3496


New fact: the installer came by today. He still had a few odd jobs to do (pipe insulation, etc.) because he couldn't complete the installation 100% all at once — he's been super busy since the start of the season.
I started talking to him about setting the boiler, with your observation about the pump in mind ... and he tells me, "Are you here on Thursday? The ÖkoFEN technician is coming in to sort out all the little details."

: Shock:

I'm dumb. I had no idea that a technician's start-up was a natural part of the installation.

We'll see how it goes on Thursday and I'll keep you posted on the adjustments and modifications made by the technician.

Very good evening to you!
0 x
Pilpoill
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 71
Registration: 12/11/17, 09:55
x 12

Re: Another thread on setting a boiler (Easypell)




by Pilpoill » 20/12/21, 20:49

Good evening LouisLaws,

You can without any problem modify the circulator I'm sure and sure, and it was I who told my installer that he was wrong ...
Most pros hate customers who like to understand the why's and the how's like me : Cheesy:
And when the Wilo notice says it's not good, the pro keeps a low profile in front of the diagram!


For the probe it is in the right place, its contact seems to be firmly attached to a hot part.
I'm more used to seeing "pencil" probes at Okofen, maybe they replaced them between 2017 and now?

For the technician, I'm not sure he's looking at your curves.
The two that I saw in front of my boiler or the two others that I had on the phone never used it because they do not know how to interpret since they work differently!
For the record (understand that I do not expect any glory), I am at a dozen installations on which I have worked, including two where I had to explain remotely to the technician that their analysis was everything. except professional ... : roll:


The problem that must be pointed out is that the TDepart does not follow the TCset at all.
Either the probe is not connected to the correct connector, or the v3v is badly wired, or ?? but there is necessarily a reason to find : Wink:

An additional piece of advice, don't let yourself be told that if it heats up with a circulator in ON / OFF, it's normal.
A climate control like yours works with a TD adapted to precisely operate continuously on the heating ranges, the comfort is incomparable 8)
And if he offers to show you how to connect it, that might be of use to you.

Keep us informed and good evening :)
0 x


 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 33 guests