Power consumption of a heat pump

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
Ahmed
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Re: Power consumption of a heat pump




by Ahmed » 11/11/17, 10:10

Yes, the idea of ​​the very compost heap is a good one: the fermentation time ** corresponds to the envisaged heating period. On the other hand, there is no need for an exchanger *: it suffices to heat the greenhouse, the temperature fluctuations due to losses will be "smoothed" by the inertia of the water. The only delicate point is to estimate the quantity of substrate to implement ...

* The principle of the exchanger is technically complex and above all, risks blocking the fermentation process, because these "little animals" are delicate.
** It can be increased by stirring the pile, in order to reload oxygen.
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Re: Power consumption of a heat pump




by Lolounette » 11/11/17, 10:58

Of course, but the presence of manure in the production greenhouse risks posing odor and contamination problems in the basins, so for me it is not possible: the manure pits must be located outside, so the exchanger seems compulsory to me?

or else you must practice fermentation in a completely closed vase ...
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Re: Power consumption of a heat pump




by Ahmed » 11/11/17, 11:27

No need for manure, crushed and humidified branches will fulfill the same office, less odor ... 8)
Piles can be placed against the walls of the tanks to better locate the heater ...
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Re: Power consumption of a heat pump




by Lolounette » 11/11/17, 12:15

for the temperature to rise high in the pile, a bacterial decomposition is required: a fresh horse manure rises to more than 70º at heart ...

the crushed wood is essentially degraded by fungi therefore the production of heat will not be sufficient for the intended use in my opinion
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Re: Power consumption of a heat pump




by chatelot16 » 11/11/17, 13:08

the cop of a heat pump strongly depends on the temperature of the thing to be heated, the lower this temperature the more the cop increases

so it is very interesting to directly heat the water, because the water exchanger has a very low temperature loss, much lower than for heating air ... and for that there are special heat pumps for swimming pools , optimized for heating water, with a cop considerably superior to heat pumps for house heating

thanks to their huge cop the good pool heat pump make a great thermal power for a low consumption ... so you are right to look for a heat pump solution

I say good heat pump because alas there are also very bad ... because to make good you need big heat exchangers that cost their price, and it is easy to reduce the price with too small heat exchanger that make a cop seedy
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Re: power consumption of a heat pump




by sicetaitsimple » 11/11/17, 15:03

ced75 wrote:So, sicetaitsimplewhy should I forget the cap?



Hello,

so I disqualified the cap (maybe too quickly) on the items I had at that time, including the fact that the use was only about 3 months in the spring.
I see since you still looked closely at the file and do your research, that said 2000 € a good quality PAC remains to be verified.

I've been thinking about it a bit since then, and in fact your problem is complicated!

It is actually closer to the air conditioning problems of indoor pools, a little less complicated because I imagine that your dream is not to sunbathe in your greenhouse in spring while swimming from time to time with your fish!

Okay, you're talking about heating the air (by stoves) or heating the water.

From my point of view, it is of course necessary to heat the water first, by regulating its temperature as best as possible because it is the well-being of your fish.

But in my opinion that is not enough because at certain periods, those where there are big differences between day temperature and night temperature, your greenhouse will become a horrible thing with extreme condensations, development of molds, ... I have no idea about the possible consequences for the fish, sorry.

In short, it may be necessary to be able to dehumidify the air by devices designed for, which in some ways come a little closer to heat pumps!

I am therefore not going to give you any advice because it is outside my field of "competence", I am only giving my feeling, but in my opinion you should seek solutions in the sites which speak of "swimming pool" covered "
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Re: Power consumption of a heat pump




by Ahmed » 11/11/17, 16:36

Lolounette, you write:
crushed wood is essentially degraded by fungi, so the production of heat will not be sufficient for the intended use in my opinion.

You make a confusion: in surface spreading, it is the mushrooms which are interested, but in composting in heap it is the thermophilic bacteria which intervene.
I wrote above that "The piles can be placed against the walls of the tanks to better localize the heating ...", I specify that you must limit yourself to the contact surface, otherwise you will create a premature court-bouillon :D , the temperature can reach 60-70 °.
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Re: Power consumption of a heat pump




by Lolounette » 11/11/17, 16:51

indeed I had a small short circuit of the cerebellum : Mrgreen:

if the pebble tunnel remains current, we can also think of coupling it to compost tunnels operating on the same basic principle but with organic matter instead of pebbles which would generate heat when the pebbles have returned all theirs...
But all that heats the air more than the water if I understood correctly and I remain convinced that we must focus on the heating of the latter!

so why not the hot layer in the basin version indeed, with the organic heating material in contact with the aerial part of the basin and the pebbles below (in contact with the buried part of the basin) to make an additional inertial mass and dab the the heat of the compost at the start ...
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Re: Power consumption of a heat pump




by ced75 » 11/11/17, 21:52

Ahmed wrote:If regularity of temperature * and automatic operation are decisive criteria for you, stupid plunging resistances would be more judicious than the heat pump; especially since nothing prevents you from isolating the bins a little ...


I calculated for a difference of 5 ° C / d a power to supply 45kw, say 25 immersion heaters from 200W to 25 € it makes an investment of 625 €, it is indeed much better than the other solutions but what gene is power consumption. Let's say 60 days at 45kw it's 2700kW, or 432 €, it's almost 4 times more expensive than the consumption of the heat pump ... In addition if I build 20 greenhouses it would be 54MW / year without counting the consumption of pumps, etc. ... I would like to propose a project that is part of sustainable development and that is as ecological as possible ...

I saw if not a hydroaccumulation pack at 3000 € with a boiler and a 1m3 tank that would regulate the temperature, what do you think?

Lolounette wrote:I can imagine a basic heat exchanger made of pipes winding in a pile of decomposing manure (isolated from straw boots?) and then in the basins, with a simple recirculation pump whose flow would be controlled by thermostat ...


The idea is ecologically very interesting, I have to think about it before I answer you ... what comes to me here cold, it is always the constraints of supply and storage like wood (with the smell in addition if it's manure ... :-)
In the greenhouse, development of diseases for fish? Outside the greenhouse, more complicated work ... In addition, depending on the nature of the compost and the stage of it goes up to 40-70 ° C, I must not exceed 25 ° C for my water , how to regulate all this? ... Finally, I have studied the subject a lot, and I think that anaerobic digestion as well as the breeding of insects will develop exponentially in the years to come, big companies are already on the lookout to recover waste and organic matter of all kinds which will quickly become rare or expensive ... even if at the moment many are wasted again ... but things are moving very quickly there and like it always has been, big companies and farms will do everything to trade nationally and internationally and there will be nothing left for small operators unless the suppliers refuse to sell at a higher price to the big but prefer to sell at cheaper for little ones r favoring short circuits ... it will be complicated if we do not want to make the same mistakes in these new markets ...
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