ÖkoFEN boiler - Follow-operation

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Victor33
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ÖkoFEN boiler - Follow-operation




by Victor33 » 28/10/09, 00:26

Hello,

We acquired an Okofen PES 20 kW boiler since spring 2009 and with the first cold weather, we started it up. The basic settings are those of the installer.
For now, the boiler spends its time stopping and restarting immediately after.
I suspect an incorrect setting of the 3-way valve as has been described by other users.

I made a recording on Compact Flash card of the functioning of the boiler, but I did not obtain the most meaningful parameters.
I am missing in particular the position of the 3-way valve, as well as the following temperatures:
Heating flow temperature
Ambient probe temperature
T ° outdoor probe

Among the experienced users of this machine, does anyone know how to obtain these parameters on the Compact Flash card?
Thank you in advance!

PS:
The regulation is a white Bmulus 1224.
If necessary, I can provide further details.
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dirk pitt
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by dirk pitt » 28/10/09, 06:44

we cannot save the position of the V3V
even the regul does not know "where" it is.
it is an incremental proportional regulation and not absolute.
only solution: spend 1 pair of hours in front of the boiler and read the position of the V3V at the same time as the other parameters.
decidedly. the wrong settings continue.
it is all the more unfortunate that in many cases, a modification of the settings is enough to calm these oscillations
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by Victor33 » 28/10/09, 20:21

Well,
Ok for the 3-way valve.
But what about the temperatures: T ° heating flow, ambient and outdoor sensor?
All these measured data are known to the regulation. There would therefore be no contraindication for these values ​​to be reported on the CF card - and that would still simplify the analysis ...
Suggest to Okofen developers?
Yours.
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by dirk pitt » 29/10/09, 09:20

no, the information you quote is information that goes to the regulation of the heating circuit and not to the boiler.
it should be understood that there are two independent regulations.
one that we call between us the boiler machine which is the large vertical circuit on the front.
this includes the card recording of which you speak.
it only takes care of regulating the combustion of the boiler without managing the heating circuit.
then the regulation of the heating circuit is the small box on the top of the dashboard. this regulation manages the V3V, the circulators, the DHW, the solar, etc. according to different parameters including the indoor / outdoor temperatures, etc.
we have not yet found a way to record the evolution of these values ​​other than in manual
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by Xian » 29/10/09, 14:25

Wrong settings or oversizing once again?

What house surface and what insulation?
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Victor33
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by Victor33 » 29/10/09, 23:29

Well, thanks for the detailed answers.
I understand that I will not escape planting myself in front of this machine for a few hours ...
If I come up with convincing results, I will publish them when the time comes that they can help other people.

In Xian:
The house dates from 1981, good insulation of the time, that is to say average for now.
Surface of approximately 250 m2 with large volumes.
Boiler power of 20 kW, the installer wanted to put 25 kW.

See you soon
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by Xian » 30/10/09, 08:55

You are in the Yvelines, me in the Marne. I heat two houses (more than 500m² in total) distant about thirty meters with a 24 kW boiler ... (the boiler was 32 at the start, but we had to clamp it, and there it is at munimum)

The two fuel oil boilers that the Pellematic replaced had accumulated around fifty KW, if memory serves.

So you have a good chance of being oversized ...
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by Victor33 » 12/01/10, 00:15

Hi,

Some feedback after a few weeks of trying to adjust the machine.

Our heating network is made up of steel radiators which obviously require a high temperature to be able to heat efficiently.
So I set the water law so that the heating flow temperature is high enough: for the current slightly negative temperatures (down to -5 ° C), the flow temperature is close to 80 ° C.

With the factory settings of the boiler, the boiler runs almost continuously and the room temperature setpoint is never reached, even if it is rather modest (18,5 ° C).
I therefore noted the modulation temperature (P263 from 70 ° C to 75 ° C) as well as the boiler shutdown temperature (P202 from 76 ° C to 80 ° C).

My questions:
- Is there any downside to having the boiler pushed to these temperatures?
- Is it even possible to further enhance these parameters?

This situation does not worry me too much because it is temporary: it is quite easy to significantly improve the insulation of certain rooms of the house, which should allow the use of a lower heating flow temperature.

Finally a last one:
In mid-season during milder outside temperatures, such a high modulation temperature (75 ° C) will certainly generate very frequent switch-on and therefore very short cycles.
During these periods, I plan to revert to a more conventional boiler setting, by lowering the modulation temperature (around 70 ° C, or even less). It is a bit restrictive since it would require manual intervention on the boiler but it would produce longer cycles like what we obtained before the temperatures dropped.
Does an intervention of this type on the boiler seem realistic (regular intervention at mid-season, then in winter)?

Thank you for your feedback and see you soon.
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by dirk pitt » 12/01/10, 08:20

Victor33 wrote: for current slightly negative temperatures (down to -5 ° C), the flow temperature is close to 80°C.


: Shock: : Shock:

stop that, you have another problem.
the only radiators that I have ever seen operating with such high temperatures were convectors with fins in the 70s. It would surprise me that this is what you have.

I suppose that before the granulated boiler, there was another boiler; was the flow temperature as high? I doubt.

decidedly, it's incredible that the heating engineers don't do their job. we change the boiler and basta. we adjust nothing, we do not check if the flow rates are correct, if all the radiators heat uniformly.
there are kicks in the ass that get lost.
I went up a bit.
already yesterday, caritan exposed me a similar problem.

in short, look for the problem (because there is one) but do not let circulate water as hot. your mixing valve is useless in this case: the boiler is live on the circuit.
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by Did67 » 12/01/10, 09:05

Victor33 wrote:
With the factory settings of the boiler, the boiler runs almost continuously and the room temperature setpoint is never reached, even if it is rather modest (18,5 ° C).
I therefore noted the modulation temperature (P263 from 70 ° C to 75 ° C) as well as the boiler shutdown temperature (P202 from 76 ° C to 80 ° C).

My questions:
- Is there any downside to having the boiler pushed to these temperatures?
- Is it even possible to further enhance these parameters?

.


Warning !!!

The maximum temp (P202) is the temperature at which the boiler initiates the shutdown process, but it continues to operate to burn the pellets which have just been injected.

So if you find in a configuration where the 3-way valve has just closed (for example in hot water preparation mode), the temperature can still rise by ten degrees beyond this maximum temperature (P202)!

So you are approaching the limit temperatures from which the safety is triggered (the little "circuit breaker" next to the "green button"). I think it's 95 ° C ...

On the other hand, the P263 plays on the modulation, not on the maximum temperature. So your boiler will modulate much higher. In short, having a tendency to "always be at full strength" and to operate by on / off ...

Does not seem relevant to me ...

Last thing: the length of the cycles is not directly related to your temperatures. It is the "consumption" of hot water. So in "mixed" season: either you maintain your parameters and your house risks being an oven (and perhaps the boiler will maintain long cycles); or you modify your parameters, your room temperature is the one desired (and the heating will slowly consume the calories produced by the boiler, which will be forced to stop). This is inescapable.

So, as a first approximation, at this stage, we must distinguish:

- the start time of your circuit, which is related to the temperature of the radiators and therefore the temperature in your accommodation; it is regulation that manages this ...

For now, you're pushing hard to be the least cold. It is very likely that your parameters (foot and slope) are too important, so that when it will be less cold, you will be too hot because the regul will calculate a completely fanciful starting temp.

And that's what you have to adjust (or open the windows).

- on the other hand, the boiler produces packets of calories, used more or less quickly; P263 and P202 aim to protect the boiler against overheating (P202) and to optimize pellet combustion / optimize cycles (P263); apart from having the lowest possible "acceleration" of your boiler (by the P263), you will not be able to escape, in mid-season, operation by on-off (except, of course, to overheat your house, open windows or heating a swimming pool ...)
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