ÖkoFEN boiler - Follow-operation

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
Victor33
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by Victor33 » 12/01/10, 23:13

Hello,

Some precisions:
The water law is actually quite high since the calculated heating flow can sometimes reach 80 ° C for current negative temperatures.
However, the boiler temperature does not rise to this temperature and remains around 75 ° C.
The 3-way valve is most of the time fully open: so yes, the boiler is as if connected directly to the heating circuit.
And yet the ambient temperature does not rise above 17 ° C. I specify that the problems of underheating concern only the main room (living room) which is a large glazed room and poorly insulated.

Compared with the previous boiler:
It was a Frisquet gas boiler that consumed astronomical amounts of gas. There was no regulation.
3-way valve: I don't know if there were any.
Heating flow temperature: I don't know (no regulation). I do remember, however, that the radiators were often very hot.
The gas boiler discharged its calories and injected them into the network. The radiators diffused them and the temperature could rise without problem above 20 ° C.

There were no modifications to the heating and radiators network with the installation of the Okofen boiler. So I tell myself that the network or radiators are not at fault.

The tracks that I envisage to improve things (from the simplest to the most complicated):
- Balancing of radiators. Their size in the large room is quite variable. It is likely that the heat injected into the network cannot be "consumed" correctly due to poor distribution.
- Treatment of insulation faults: for example non-insulated shutters and some that are leaking.
- Insulation of the pipes which lead to the radiators and which pass under the slab of the stay in unheated room.
- Insulation of the underside of the living room slab.
- Increase of the flow in the heating circuit: the speed of the circulator is currently at the maximum, therefore it would be necessary to change the circulator by a more powerful one. I'm not very hot (ah ah!) And in addition it would mean that the installer has not provided a sufficient circulator.

If you have other ideas or comments, I am of course interested.
See you soon
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Did67
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by Did67 » 13/01/10, 07:32

Indeed, your gas boiler probably sent the water at a higher temperature, if necessary, with a higher flow rate.

It is not possible to get out of the 65/75 ° range, without risking damaging the boiler.

You had a phenomenal consumption of gas. If you don't solve the "calorie drain" problem, you will have a phenomenal consumption of pellets (it will just be a little cheaper). It is not by changing the pump that we reduce the leaks from a basin!

So, yes, this is where to attack. And strong.

After that, one of two things: either the problem is solved (the capacity of your radiator is sufficient to "inject" enough calories into your room, because the leaks have decreased) and everything is OK; or this is still not the case and it is necessary to consider changing the radiator for a more efficient device ...

And normally, you should then be able to adjust your heating curve so that the 3-way valve does its job and to "save" (at least a little). There, if your regulation calculates 80 ° C but your boiler is at 75 °, you drive "foot to the floor with an overloaded car that cannot accelerate" ...
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dirk pitt
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by dirk pitt » 13/01/10, 08:55

increasing the flow is not necessarily the right solution. the pressure drop must be correctly distributed between your different radiators in relation to the heating needs of the rooms.
Let me explain:
you say you mostly have a room that is not warm enough. maybe the circuit makes the flow in these radiators is not enough.
increasing the flow temperature (this is what the gas boiler did) circumvents the problem at the cost of an increase in losses (and therefore in consumption)
now that you can not do it anymore because the boiler works at a lower temperature, you have to balance the radiators.
remember that the V3V should never be fully opened
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Victor33
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by Victor33 » 13/01/10, 22:30

Hello,


Thank you, thank you for your wise advice.
At Did67:
There, if your regulation calculates 80 ° C but your boiler is at 75 °, you drive "foot to the floor with an overloaded car that cannot accelerate" ...

The comparison is well found, that's exactly it.
At DirkPitt:
I saw the manipulation that you offer on another post for balancing a network and I will be inspired by it.
cordially
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Victor33
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by Victor33 » 13/01/10, 23:23

Hello again,

I recently chatted with people from Okofen at a trade show.
They sent me the doc of the new version of the regulation.

I noticed that new functions have been added, in particular with regard to controlling the 3-way valve.
For all intents and purposes, below is an extract from the doc of this new regulation.
Maybe it could be useful to solve some problems related to the instability of the 3-way valve in certain applications (for example underfloor heating?).
I have not tested because I do not have this regulation, nor a heated floor.

Image

Also, the recording of the measurements is done by means of a USB key now, certainly more practical than the CompactFlash card.
cordially
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by Did67 » 14/01/10, 10:14

Interesting. That means he is working on this issue!

For those who are already equipped, the purchase of a new regul is still hesitant!
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Victor33
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by Victor33 » 14/02/10, 23:01

Hello,

Here is some news about my heating setbacks.

I did the work that I had mentioned previously: insulation of the heating pipes, caulking of the most obvious air inlets, balancing with the bulk of the radiators.
On this subject, there were beautiful dumplings, of the kind of tees blocked in wide open position and which made bypass ...

As a result, the behavior of the boiler has changed, but not in the way I expected. And it was always difficult to get over 17 ° C in the living room.
I tried different combinations of parameters, taking inspiration from the many posts available on this forum, but I was going around in circles and no very convincing improvement in temperature.
A little puzzled, I was interested very recently (last night) in the 3-way valve and I got down to dismantling it. Not entirely, only the control block above it.
And surprise surprise, it turns out that everything was turned upside down:
    - The initial position of the valve in the valve body was badly positioned: it was placed between the heating flow and return
    - The electrical wiring was not correct
    - The strongest was that the valve operating key was not engaged in the control unit, so the valve remained fixed regardless of the command. But the repeater index on the control unit was mobile, which suggested that everything was going well.
In short, the V3V was mounted anyhow.

This is a Siemens brand Acvatix V3V of which I provide the photo below.

Image

Fortunately, I could find a lot of doc on the Siemens site to dissect the operation of this valve and to mount it correctly.
It can be positioned in two different directions depending on the direction of circulation of the heating circuit. Depending on the direction of circulation, care must be taken over its initial position in the valve body, the electrical wiring which determines its direction of rotation, and finally the repeater mask (cold / hot).
It is also necessary to ensure that the valve key is properly engaged in the control unit, otherwise all of this is useless. It is obvious that the installer did not ask himself the question during installation.

Reminder of anomalies before dismantling the V3V:
The heating flow temperature calculated by the regulation was almost never reached. The boiler pedaled behind the control and launched into a series of starts and stops. These cycles could last all day and night for the coldest days (-5 ° C). The minimum duration of the cycles was around 30 min, not necessarily dramatic in comparison to other installations mentioned on this forum, but that did not translate a very logical operation.

After dismantling the V3V:
Finally, the boiler is more stable: it burns continuously as long as there is demand. The boiler temperature is easily stabilized at the modulation temperature and the V3V does the job of sampling and mixing the heat produced.
And finally, it's good !!! We reached 19 ° C in the stay in the middle of the afternoon, it's strange!

Everything is getting simpler now and I'm almost furious at not realizing the V3V's bad mounting earlier (I'm only in the house on weekends, which on the one hand is an advantage: it leaves the time to cogitate the rest of the week ...).
I will now be able to move on to adjusting the boiler parameters on the basis of one week of recording.

Sorry for the length of this post, I hope these few info will be useful to other people.
cordially
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by Did67 » 15/02/10, 00:20

Goods.

And one more case for the already long list of "bullshit"!

When, moreover, I wrote that, unfortunately, many heating engineers are only plumbers who know nothing about "electro-mechanics" ... There, even the plumbing is not mastered!
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pimousse07
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how to find the CF on Okofen boiler?




by pimousse07 » 28/02/10, 10:02

Hello,
we have a pelletmatic okofen, and it now displays the error message: No CF card ...
We have read the manual and we have opened the boiler but we do not know where the CF card is (we have found where to insert it but not where it is!)

Thank you for your answers .
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by Did67 » 28/02/10, 11:13

I do not understand very well.

There is indeed a slot for a CF card (at the top on the boiler plate).

There is no CF card. One MAY enter one to store a number of parameters.

But the "firmware" is resident. He's not on a CF.

So this message must have appeared because you tried to start a recording, in the stage 2 parameters of the deck ("pellets control").

That shouldn't stop your boiler from working, right?
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