Improve the insulation of windows: blinds, curtains, blinds?

[Obamot]

Okay, so I have to answer point by point. Thus, everyone will be able to form an opinion and poke some ideas ... I maintain that the gain is low - especially in the case in point and after seeing the photos, here is why.

I repeat myself: the drapes / curtains have only a comfort effect, they do not prevent the heat from dispersing outside the building. Amha it's peanut ....

1) Comfort, isn't that what we're looking for when we heat ??? Personally, I don't care about the temperature; I prefer to have 19 ° C and "hot" than "21 ° C" and "cold"!

And comfort, we forget it too much, it's not just the temperature. It is also the perception, by the skin, of the radiations! (and it also depends on the humidity, the movements of air ...).

Sorry to note a slight contradiction (in all good honor, not shoot ... lol). Nothing prevents having one AND the other (warmer AND greater comfort, it's not antagonistic, it all depends on the measures taken) ...

So OK, the curtains do not isolate (in the direction conduction), but they allow to have a better comfort with a temperature equal or even lower ...

2) Even if the "air gap" between curtain and window is not really captive (everything depends on the nature of the curtains, the shapes of the frame), it is all the same a small "stamp", a "retarder" ...

Having been confronted with several houses with this type of recurring problem, it is possible to solve it in several ways which the cumulative ones with the others arrive at a better overall result. This is what to see.
As you point out yourself: it's onlya small "stamp" retarder (although I say no). Because, like it or not, it passes as much air through a half-open door as through a wide open door, due to the effect of the "air draw". Graphics are fine, but it's static and doesn't take this parameter into account at all.

3) The heat does not escape from the house only by conduction. It is also "radiated". Without a curtain, these rays will be "inetercpted by the shutter (if there is any and if they are closed), so on the outside. With curtains, part of it will be through the curtain, so inside.

No, no and no, that's a pure view of the mind. You have to see a construction as a whole.

Of course, everything depends on the size of windows, the nature of the glazing (double, triple, normal glass, low emissivity glass, etc ...)

That: oooooohh that YES! But not only.

Anyway, I teach my children to close the shutters, and where there are, to draw the curtains! It makes at least a little sport.

It shows that you don't really believe what you write. Are you from the construction industry and from which trade?

Here are some measures that I have found beneficial, and applied in cases of houses where you cannot control the renovation, either for reasons of cost or because you are simply a tenant.

1) To isolate ... you have to isolate yourself! 'Sieur de La Pallisse could not have said it better ...

2) Let's start with the circulation of air (at the origin of the biggest problem of discomfort ... since it also transports humidity) and ESPECIALLY heat exchange.
Everything must be sealed, the air must NO longer pass at all. With a silicone stick-gun: because the air passes through the electrical ducts
- dismantle the sockets and seal inside the electrical tube AND in the sheath housing in the wall.
- dismantle the ceiling lights and do the same.
- install "L" door sills to block the passage of air (in PVC or wood ... and especially not in aluminum or metal) where it is necessary => in principle the entrance doors between interior / exterior, including French window. Once installed, carefully put a hollow body gasket ("d" profile ... not the letter "D" the "d" profile) all around and cut the joint in a bizeau shape to make it penetrate inside of the starting section (change the seal when it is "cooked", ie between three and five years). Do the same on the window frames and even double (a seal on the frame side which comes to rest on a seal on the upright side) put cellophane as double glazing as explained above or in the other post.
- locate the ventilation ducts and seal them (except the bathroom where it is necessary to be able to open and close depending on the degree of use, the same for all bathrooms: laundry room, kitchen => in principle everything must be "closed "when the room is not in use or there is not too much moisture release).
- install boxes, above the blind boxes, providing a space for insulation. Provide a polypropylene sleeve to isolate the duct from the blind rod if necessary.
- the terracotta brick walls must be insulated by foam injection, as well as all the interstices of circulating air to make this air completely trapped in all circulation.
- also dismantle all the complaints and screws in buffers in the brick walls, or "hollow" wall, to inject foam under pressure in spray.
— Last but not least if air still passes under the front door, you can slide a pre-cut PVC floor board to create a "plug" to prevent air from circulating.
- also watch out for the keyholes, or unsuspected quantities of air can circulate, especially in window door locks ... real strainers (fill the interstices with grease ... if necessary ... this will block the 'air...). Old locks which are not of the Yale type should be banned. In Yale, you can leave a key to prevent air from circulating with the outside (it is also recommended to lock yourself up for the night for your own safety ...)

3) Floor insulation:
- pvc or carpet in all rooms, including kitchen, bathroom, laundry room .... Unless it is wooden parquet, but then there is a need to dismantle all the complaints and door thresholds, to see if there is in places where air passes (screws or parquet adjustment, for example) as above => silicone ...

4) Inlet and outlet pipes
- water, waste water, ventilation duct, chimneys, etc., to be insulated if they are not made of PVC.

5) Windows and French windows
Examine if you have cold bridges (for example shelf or aluminum or metal uprights) and air passage in the frame ...

And finally insulate the large cold bridges from the inside (for example with insulation protected by creased-crested). You can also buy a small electric dehumidifier to dry the air. Comfort guaranteed (there are small air conditioning units on casters which also dehumidify).

Here, Lumberjack will complete if I forgot something. These are relatively simple and inexpensive measures to do if you do not want (cannot) undertake big jobs. All these measures taken together will give you a much greater cost than curtains ... which can complete the picture if it pleases you.

[Christophe]

Obamot don't bother to be contemptuous to show that you're right ... especially when you're wrong !!! See the loss curve of an air gap !!

I never said (and the same for the others I think) that you had to put curtains in place of insulation (frames or the rest) and hunting for air leaks, or even place of a worn out chassis change!

We simply say that the drapes can be a PLUS to insulation and thermal comfort for a MODEL ENOUGH INVESTMENT compared to the results and especially to other solutions (shutters, chassis change ...)!

For example: I think that for tenants, putting up effective curtains can be a very good solution !!

Where are you doing this on purpose?

FYI, our house pretty well insulated elsewhere I think. Walls = 30 cm of Ytong + finish, slabs of Ytong roof also of 25 cm + 5 cm of styrodur before paneling + 26 cm of wadding in lost roof spaces. Obviously the aluminum chassis of 20 years, there are better now but we do not have the money to change ... And if are not so crappy as that (4-16-4 and thermal break) ...

So I prefer to put € 500 in beautiful curtains and be on profitability than € 10 in new chassis where profitability is uncertain over the life of the chassis ...

Yes, with 5-6 cubic meters of wood a year it takes years to make a profit ...

So do you understand? If you don't understand, put me a thermometer and see us temperature together!

You ok?

[Woodcutter]

Obamot has never been wrong ... He's a concrete engineer!

[Obamot]

Of course I had everything "understood"

Start assertions of the type:

Comfort is not what you want when you heat

... as the first truth, it was certainly a little strong coffee, right?

When I give an answer, it is not for a particular case. I speak in general". But don't tell me the curtains do what you say they actually do (the measurements given above are incomparably more relevant dslé).

It was purely by way of example.

Since you take it like that, now I'm afraid to get you out of the curves and especially photos ... I would not be offensive.

@+

(I do not see at all in what I could have been contemptuous, I answered Did67)

[Christophe]

Since you take it like that, now I'm afraid to get you out of the curves and especially photos ... I would not be offensive.

Oh yes, get out that will educate us!

(I do not see at all in what I could have been contemptuous, I answered Did67)

I read correctly and I answered on his behalf.

This is contemptuous:

It shows that you don't really believe what you write. Are you from the construction industry and from which trade?

[Obamot]

... not wanting to give a bad impression. Perhaps it is better that I withdraw from this thread with all my apologies, if I could have hurt someone.


PS: I post the photos by MP, you will judge for yourself if you want to publish them. My concern is really that nobody is oriented in a hierarchically questionable direction in priorities. Excellent day to all.

[Christophe]

Ah no it's too easy. You stay and you assume!

What photos are you talking about?

[Lietseu]

Damn it!
You are not going to bicker for a purely technical development ???



To use Xtophe's idea, I am with my partner, tenant of a super apartment ..... poorly insulated, it's even a caricature

6-storey building, with concrete structure, load-bearing wall without insulation (air pocket, that's all) Concrete warp without insulation used as a floor, at most the full carpet is at least it can be a little insulating '' an apparent comfort point of view and to rivet the nail of the coffin, the frames are huge and made of aluminum with simple glazing some 12.0mx 2.0m, hello heat losses

According to the graphs seen on econologies and elsewhere, I believe that we should redo the building from top to bottom, not to say that we had better raze him and all the others in the neighborhood that is not made up of low-rent housing, but of a so-called "report" building which is indeed the case, everything for some, nothing for others ...

The facade is oriented "full south" in summer it is extremely hot and in winter ... so to isolate everyone in the apartment, I installed roller blinds from a manufacturer known to all (with Scandinavian which contains a K in the middle ...)

And well placed 15 cm from the glass in front of the veil and behind the thicker curtains, they insulate very well from the heat of the sun and also from the cold in winter, if they are not closed - it is impossible to stay behind the window - either one dies of hot, or one teeth chatter ...

So conclusion, even if it is not an "orthodox" method of isolation, it is better than nothing and does not lecture me obamot, I have as many at your service ...

Everyone can't afford up-to-date accommodation, you don't mind, gentlemen ... perfectionists in perfect and ideal insulation (my owner contacted, DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR, except to make us pay for the work )


the ideal of insulation is for all (ideal) but not for those who do not want (enrich the pig owner), can not afford these costs there (instead of the owner) and who often have a plan B which consists in emigrating towards more lenient skies by buying some thatched cottage or they will feel (finally) at their home after having sacrificed 200% of their incomes has the education of their children, the purchase of the essential electro- spared etc ... that's life - it seems !!!
Meow

[Obamot]

I am very well thank you. It's not so much the idea "to be absolutely right" than having experienced in our own construction what I offer to the customers of our design office ... And we are not rich, preferring to remain modest and to propose adapted and affordable solutions (I do not advertise, our agenda is complete until ... 2012).

Better than a curve, we have gained exactly 12 ° C at home, by taking ALL the measures recommended above. Includes cellophane taped to the windows as double glazing (very economical troubleshooting solution that has proven itself for more than seven years) All while having lowered the heating by 35% (we had 14 ° C in winter in inside, in the best heated room ...)

But you have to be meticulous in detecting airways and cold bridges, and above all very careful in clogging, the perfect continuity of hollow body seals and everything. We have NOTHING changed in the shell.

On the photos below, we can see the cellophane which served as double glazing (glued with tape on the window frame without letting air pass):





On photo "3" the white border in the window frame is the double insulation seal (there is the same opposite and parallel, in the recess of the window joinery) :



On this photo of the same window filed (bottom left), we can guess at the perimeter the positioning of the other joint opposite. Designed to go perfectly into contact with the other, when the window is closed:



Detail of the seal on the window frame (or it is not in principle planned to put a second ... but it is so much more effective ...) :



Detail of a silicone joint in the background (where there was a passage of an apparently tiny air stream ... but "uppercase" in relation to the air flow / hour ...):



These windows are now replaced by double glazing and PVC frames. We are now 45% of saved heating.

And while there was concern that a potential increase in mold had appeared here and there, the opposite happened with these new windows.

Source: http://www.fr.ricardo.ch/form/ViewImage.asp?auctionnr=584554902&curimgvers=0&imgcount=3&rank=1
(It has already been sold on the bay).

[Flytox]

But you have to be meticulous in detecting airways and cold bridges, and above all very careful in sealing, perfect continuity of hollow body seals and everything.

When I read all the waterproofing that you propose to do .... I thought you wanted to transform the homes into a submarine .... Just a detail, a house without ventilation is the best way to maintain dust mites and humidity / mold. I hope there is no one allergic to you.