Improved insert René Brisach: air preheating

[Flytox]

There, the "roof" deflector has taken shape (creep) ... where it heats the most (in the middle) and the weight is felt.

Show us what was in the belly with some improvement sum simple in the end ... but potentially very advantageous ....

The small hatch in the floor can be easily transformed for supplying hot air closer to the center of the home. Below we see that there is room to organize an air flow against the underside of the home.





Sheet metal and cast iron (steel andirons ) in place.
The middle bar of the grate to fucking lost in 10 20% to its thickness even 2 months .... The back bar is bent approximately at 5 8 mm

[bidouille23]

Hello ,

ok cool potential;) ... never to live like that pierces the bottom of a fireplace ... it's just great actually dangerous ... You or breaks you move the short plate of combustion you get an outbreak of hell ....

I would put the bent pipes that lead to the back or to the side so as not to bother you when you load your wood .... and then prendron bine heat ... at the scrap corner if you have you will find a probably stainless steel, and with luck the 310 or 304 perso ... I try with 306 and 310 like it already fine ... except over a thousand degrees here it disappears ...

Writ instead of your chenet I would put refractory bricks, so the air inlet is of little zippers system you can definitely make a circuit with bricks and conduct air under fire, or behind front c is best but good, especially through such holes diameter to 0.6 0.8, especially if you have a very good draft, then you're going to type with pressure on the embers there's good .... top you turbule with your or your tubes so the hatch ....

Bricks keep longer (especially in terms of their alumina content) ...

see you ...

[SixK]

Um ... Yeah weird tone insert.
You did it nine?

It looks like it lacks a cast iron plate for separate air supply and wood.
If you look closely, it looks like everything is planned to put a plate on top of the air supply. If I understand correctly, this is practically what you did with the piece of metal that you added?

Vires your piece of metal and adds a cast iron plate to get to the bottom of the home. After you pierce holes at regular intervals.
You have to choose the shape, Round, oblong slit. On my insert, saw nose, I have holes 1Cm all 3 / 4 cm.
With that, you can turn your andirons
It will be a little annoying to clean the ashes because normally they have to live down in an ashtray, but if I understand it, on the like, there is none.
The you will be obliged to transfer the cast iron plate.


I also feel that you have no external air supply? (All air is taken into the room?
If you have the possibility of adding it is better, but there is a risk of creating a cold air into the house.
In any case, it means breaking the brick and the outer wall of the house.

I have not sensed how well the smoke were evacuated, but if I understand it, there are only the top and bottom plate seen on the photo and post it directly leads?
On my insert, I 2 hats that force air to pass along the walls before the discharge pipe (1 2 hat = cast iron plates that are held each other by taking support on the edges) .

Finally there is something that intrigues me, when you close the air in front arrived, your fire continues to operate normally has about?
If you charge too much, basically you have no more control over your fire?
On my own, if I close the front arrived the home was quiet very quickly and eventually die out.

[SixK]

like? you can not edit your posts after more 1 hour ...

If you're with, you can cut a hatch in the cast iron plate I say to add, in order to transfer the ashes (even use of the insert) and shut the air inlet flap when you does not use the insert.
Randomly, you need a grinder and what solder melting to create support for the hatch.

Foresee some game for the cast to expand.

SixK

[Flytox]

Hello Sixk

Um ... Yeah weird tone insert.
You did it nine?

It looks like it lacks a cast iron plate for separate air supply and wood.
If you look closely, it looks like everything is planned to put a plate on top of the air supply. If I understand correctly, this is practically what you did with the piece of metal that you added?

No, he was in the house when buying ..... and chui not sure it was full .....

Vires your piece of metal and adds a cast iron plate to get to the bottom of the home. After you pierce holes at regular intervals.
You have to choose the shape, Round, oblong slit. On my insert, saw nose, I have holes 1Cm all 3 / 4 cm.
With that, you can turn your andirons
It will be a little annoying to clean the ashes because normally they have to live down in an ashtray, but if I understand it, on the like, there is none.
The you will be obliged to transfer the cast iron plate.

+ 1; It's a good remedies.

I also feel that you have no external air supply? (All air is taken into the room?
If you have the possibility of adding it is better, but there is a risk of creating a cold air into the house.
In any case, it means breaking the brick and the outer wall of the house.

It was indeed as to '2 years ago (suction in the room). Since I recycled a single flow VMC to blow in the house, just down the ass of the insert (right pipe). Aspiration is in the attic. To the left is the extraction pipe of hot air from the hood of the insert ... I do spit near the ground to better mix with the air of the house ...

I have not sensed how well the smoke were evacuated, but if I understand it, there are only the top and bottom plate seen on the photo and post it directly leads?

Yes!

On my insert, I 2 hats that force air to pass along the walls before the discharge pipe (1 2 hat = cast iron plates that are held each other by taking support on the edges) .

You not have a picture or diagram: P

Finally there is something that intrigues me, when you close the air in front arrived, your fire continues to operate normally has about?
If you charge too much, basically you have no more control over your fire?

When it "gets carried away" it takes about 1 minute to calm down by closing the zippers.

On my own, if I close the front arrived the home was quiet very quickly and eventually die out.

The window is not tight at all on the door (see the black traces of the picture) especially high, it is a non-original hacked stuff and lousy .... When I close the air down to the zippers, now I got to heat more down with my cast iron plate, the fire continues and even better that the wood is dry ....

[SixK]

OK, a small cobbled scheme quickly.


Red and green, the 2 hats (spoilers) my insert.
The system is probably not transposable on hold, but the idea is to force the stream has probably stick to the walls and a little slow the passage of gas.

To improve performance, the builder screwed fins on the internal face of the insert at the first plates.
Distance between my plate and the surface of the insert about 1cm.
The air can also pass on the sides.

Otherwise above the insert, I have a sort of hat with departures 4, 2 outputs of each side of the fireplace and just 2 in the rooms above.

On this hat, I added some firebricks around the exhaust vent of gases. I do not know if this is of interest, but already it smells less aluminum heated in the rooms when I load well.

I try to take pictures later.
Someone may recognize the model and / or the manufacturer, I have not found any indication of the insert, or net.

SixK

[Flytox]

After several temperature measurements (K Thermocouple) .....

It's hard to measure something that holds up. Near the andirons (in front of the air inlet side) this can range from 400 to 720 ° C .... depending on the quantity of embers which falls more or less close to the thermocouple. The walls are much colder than the "atmosphere" and again depending on the proximity of the flames we read everything and its opposite ..... In the flame it rose for a few seconds to 1044 ° C (no insistence on not shooting the Thermocouple)

Under the cast sheet reported, the air flow also brings its share of variations (in 80 180 ° C?). When the air zippers are closed under the sheet iron it navigates around 230 ° C ..... but it also depends if embers fell over the cast sheet .....

In short, for the temperature reading, in accessible places, the thing that seems the most "representative" of the continuous operation of the insert is the outlet of hot air blown at the outlet of the hood. We can see with 30 to 40 seconds of delay the air adjustment variations (especially large ).

For the exhaust close to the exit of the insert, the temperature is so unstable (for the same section), it would take several thermocouple and average (as is done for the monitoring of gas turbines) .. ..

[bidouille23]

Slut,

you still have the gates to the barbeuc?

in fact it is not an insert your thing it's a barbecue ...
three cooking level;) ...

if not add baffle plate, you can screw angles iron (cut on old plates after stove or insert in the junkyard) .. once you have drilled tapped, you set these angles that allow you to retain the baffle paused in support against a wall of the hat of the insert, and based on the corners you put ...


for the background if you want to put a cast iron plate, like in the junkyard you can find the rear insert, and it gives good surface again, these are equipped with front fins in general (look here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/post282952.html#282952 ).

If you monte fins down you can make a good heating primary air and I think ... just ...

By cons with a system like this, the ashes become a problem when it accumulates too ... an air inlet height would bring you much ...

you take your rectangle hole in the bottom to put a box gerne to guide air to the home base (the box hidden beneath the plate of home background).
And you chew the box and fixed with screws (threaded nuts or screw with views that you can access below).

you go up to the box so that it spits out its air at half the height of the fireplace ... basically you make an "L", with a rectangle base and the round or rectangle riser pipes ... everything can be screwed or riveted ... Same at the junkyard there is your happiness ...
even more ...

Cheaply and simply you can really do something that fonctionneras better, and can even be surprising ...

just make sure you manage the air valve is simple;) I greatly trust you to find a great solution ...
and have time to do it well understood ...

see you

[Flytox]

Hello bidouille23

you still have the gates to the barbeuc?

in fact it is not an insert your thing it's a barbecue ...
three cooking level;) ...

Indeed, I had already felt these barbeuc firing positions for use as ceiling baffle support ....... or so .....

Another idea: When the loaded timber is too wet, it blackens and chars slowly slowly without really participate in the heating of the insert. To get to do burn with minimal flame must stack the logs. The gases which pass / slip through the logs warm up and reach a much higher temperature and moist to burn logs arrive.

Proximity and temperature are closely related. The idea would be to require more gas to bypass completely the logs laying on top
directly a kind of refractory metal / insulating material and thus slowing the outflow of gas / heat loss. In this more confined space temperature should climb and help me burn more completely these logs.

There is a refractory metal in KC20 in my files that correspond can be, well, it's not a solution for everyone, given the astronomical price of the material and the machining difficulty .... (must choose drill carbide drill to reach him for drills HSS is not even bother, they melt ... )

After this sheet, we need to raise to put wood underneath and it remains an ergonomic minimum.

By cons with a system like this, the ashes become a problem when it accumulates too ... an air inlet height would bring you much ...

Indeed, when the fire lasted a number of hours, the ash cluttering the floor of the home and the air inlet, the operation changes (in this case, it works better in completely closing the air).

[bidouille23]

Hi Fly,

for your amha deflector, you replace the original one by another plate, or you keep the original but you can down him head to mofieir angle ...
PLU splat (but not flat kind 50 ° from the vertical), suddenly the gas come out less quickly .... therefore warmer thus more likely to burn etc ...

What works well to help burn is a "mouth" which will compress the gases to force the marriage between unburned Co and oxygen in the air ... like between two deflectors .... there are also the springs ;) which will stretch the flame because the gases will turn around and thus continue to burn if there is enough heat ...;)


And if your explanation with wet wood thought make me a trick ...

The newspaper with inks acts when it is over and that the gas passes through when consummé but not destroyed, catalyst ...
instead of a metal plate, therefore, a "plate" of newspaper ....
For the environment against ... I'm not great either ....

but as an experience it is doable ... I Luye there quite a few years an American article or a person explaining how he was doing to fire a fire slow start and efficient combustion, thanks to newspaper ...
Ea I try, and once the log is burned but not destroyed as effectively there is a reaction ...

Basically yes that's proximity to the heat source, to capture fast heat, and rate of progression in the home coupled with turbulance to bring the gas has a combustion temperature while mixing with the oxidant which auras also had time to heat ..

Succeed to have a slow flow (but sufficient to allow for back suffisement oxidizer) gas, allied to a high temperature, is one of the key of a good combustion .... directly related to the geometry of the home (and characteristics of draw) ...
Character I intentionally added a bell above my stove, instead of tuber my fireplace) .... No risk of a chimney fire in me, for dry wood and very high combustion .... well before the line ....

and yes it is the problem of not having ash drawer and a lower air intake air ... more ....

In the insert of my mother, I put a plate with cooling fins (the fins down) above the original home plate background ...
So I always air that can come out of both plate and is heated when the embers are there in numbers .... My ash pan only use it when the fire extinguishes, for clean the fireplace (occasionally ) ...

Insulation, or make simple deflector plate, a kind of stainless steel layer 1.5 mm ep. almost Platte just the brods curved in order to accommodate over a plate vermiculilte example ... Insulation deflector;) ....

Search conditions there is also the method with turbo nozzle and dip tube to bring air ....

see you