Help with fine-tuning Easypell settings: setpoint temperature, min and boiler cut-off

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MartinRev
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Help with fine-tuning Easypell settings: setpoint temperature, min and boiler cut-off




by MartinRev » 21/01/22, 15:17

Hello,

I am writing to you because I have had an Easypell 16kw pellet boiler without a tank for 3 years. Overall I'm happy with the settings I made and the fuel consumption, but I wonder if I could still optimize its performance, especially its ignition periods.
To summarize: house of 150m2, 3 levels (ground floor, 1st, converted attic) very open from the ground floor to the attic, very few doors, partly mezzanine attic. 6 radiators, one in each room. Valve completely open on the ground floor kitchen and living room, set to 3 on the 1st floor landing and closed or set to 1/2 in the other rooms except when necessary. Curve and foot 1,2 / 35°, comfort temp at 19,5.
In the state I manage to have a homogeneous heat in the house and for an average consumption of 1,5 bags of 15kilo per day (rather 2 lately, 1 in autumn), knowing that the heating is on the way from 7am at 21:30 p.m. in general every day, reduced between these times.
So I have the impression that given the surface, the settings and consumption are consistent. I've fine-tuned the water law a lot, especially because the insulation of the house is done gradually and since this fall it's over.

On the other hand there is always an element that I do not manage to understand, these are the adjustment of the set temperature of the boiler, the minimum temperature and its cut-off temperature. I have an easytronic Plus control and I am confused between the settings on the boiler and on the control.

I have read a lot of subject and forum before posting but without really finding an answer to my question, in particular I think of the fact that there are few users of Easypell and rather users of Okofonen models strictly speaking, who have access to more settings and measures. For example I cannot see the number of start stop cycles. Finally I have a menu that tells me a number of burner starts and a time to use it but if I divide it comes up to operating times of 15 min or less. I had come across a subject from an easypell user who had essentially the same results. So I wonder if the calculation is not really applicable to this boiler and does not really indicate the cycle of the boiler, or is it normal (the consumption does not seem excessive to me, there is no unburnt matter in the ashes and when I did the seasonal maintenance I did not notice any condensate or soot, just a little at the top of the heating body but that did not seem abnormal according to the manual. interview).

On the boiler I can adjust:
- boiler setpoint temperature (between 70 and 90, factory 70)
- boiler cut-off temperature (between 76 and 95, factory 76)

then on the control I have:
- Boiler ++: 10°
- Tmin Boiler: 60°
- T max Boiler: 95°
- T lim pump: 60°
with a remark in the manual specifying that without a buffer tank, the min boiler and pump temp should be 60° min.

What is the interaction of its different settings, how to interpret them?
I noticed that if the boiler goes below 60 it restarts.
What exactly should you aim for? that the burner ignites as infrequently as possible? what to do in this case? Should we favor a higher or lower boiler setpoint temperature (impossible under 70 in my case)? What about the cut-off temperature, is it better for the temperature to be high and therefore the cycle longer or closer to 70 to reach temperature more quickly. And the minimum temperature of the boiler is it better to raise it or lower it?
I'm really lost in this part. Knowing that when it's very cold the hot water start never exceeded 55 I think. With an outside temperature of 0 the water is around 45.
Thank you for your help
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Pilpoill
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Re: help with tweaking Easypell settings: setpoint temp, min and boiler cut-off




by Pilpoill » 22/01/22, 16:57

Hello,

The Easypell is just an Okofen without the latest refinements.
A bit like a Dacia in the Renault group (even if on the latest models we are very close to the Renault equivalent)

The setpoint temperature is the temperature that the boiler must strive to maintain when it is operating.
The minimum temperature is the one where the circulators stop working to protect the boiler tank (non-condensing model at Easypell).
The cut-off temperature is that which -when reached- causes the combustion to stop and therefore the cycle in progress.

I don't know your regulation (visually your screen looks strangely like the old Okofen regulations with menus accessible by a wheel if I remember correctly) but if it's like the old Okofen there is a parameter which gives the average time since the first start.
The longer the cycles, the better. If they are 15 minutes it is very very short : Shock:

Regarding your questions about the flow temperature to the radiators, it is necessary to make the distinction between these and those of the boiler.
In principle, in operation your boiler knows that it must maintain its tank at a temperature above 60°C.
Simple, basic, it only takes care of its internal balloon.
Then intervenes the regulation which it must make a mixture between the water of the internal balloon and the water of return of your radiators to stick to the temperature of departure radiators. Thanks to your water law, your outside temperature and probably your room thermostat.
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MartinRev
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Re: help with tweaking Easypell settings: setpoint temp, min and boiler cut-off




by MartinRev » 22/01/22, 17:40

thank you for the answer.
I do have an outdoor sensor and as said I think the water law settings are good, I did a lot of testing and in any case I get the requested temperatures. The water flow and return temperatures are quite close, that's also a good sign, isn't it?

The regulation is an old one indeed. A real m **** I want to say, there is a latency with each movement of the wheel and a crazy afterglow on the screen. But let's move on. The in-depth settings are protected by access code (4 digits which corresponds to the 2 digits of the hour and the 2 digits of the day). By doing a search on google we find no information or update of this regulation, that is to say that it had to be abandoned quickly.
It is supposed to be able to also save all the curves on USB but I tried with 4 different keys, formatted in different formats without success.

So I still have the impression that the cycles are indeed short. Below 60° the circulator cuts out and the boiler restarts and therefore stops after the maximum temperature set (76°). The setpoint is 70 on the boiler.
How then can I increase these cycles? higher max temperature (like 80)? boiler setting ++ of the regulation rather at 15 (it's supposed to be the heat margin of the boiler, that's it)?

In short once again I do not understand the interaction of the settings of the regulation and the boiler.
The explanations of the manual of the regulation:

Boiler ++: The boiler increase is added to the heating and DHW flow increases for the calculation of the boiler setpoint temperature. It represents the buffer energy reserve of the boiler to meet heating and DHW needs.
Example: The DHW is set to 60°C, the DHW increase is 5°C. With a boiler increase of 10°C, a boiler setpoint temperature of 75°C is obtained.
T min hot: The minimum temperature of the boiler protects it against possible cold returns. It corresponds to the temperature where the mixing valves are authorized to open (Compulsory: > 60° in the absence of a buffer tank or mixing bottle).
T max hot: When the boiler temperature reaches "T max hot", all the heating pumps are activated in order to relieve the boiler of excess energy. This safety is deactivated as soon as the boiler temperature drops by "boiler++".
Example: T max = 95°C, Hot++ = 7°C. The circulators are cut off when the temperature falls below 88°C.
Pump lim T: When the boiler temperature exceeds this limit, the circulators can operate. They can't walk underneath
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Pilpoill
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Re: help with tweaking Easypell settings: setpoint temp, min and boiler cut-off




by Pilpoill » 22/01/22, 18:56

On the current ones, to retrieve the curves, you must first configure them via the touch screen, then insert a USB key and leave it for several minutes for this to happen.
On yours with this regulation I have absolutely no idea but on the recent Easypells (with the Touch screen) the procedure is identical to the Okofen.
And we can see a lot of things in this case, a little less on the Easypell but no need to make you want if it's impossible on yours : Oops:


Flow and return temperature fairly close, I can't tell you - on the contrary - I looked for the greatest possible delta by setting my circulator to the minimum allowable to properly heat the furthest room.


For the rest, I do not know this regulation so I leave the hand to the owners of old Okofen.
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MartinRev
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Re: Help with tweaking Easypell settings: setpoint temperature, min and boiler cut-off




by MartinRev » 22/01/22, 19:05

Ok, thanks for the response.
Aren't there any guidelines to follow?
Like the lowest possible boiler setpoint temp (70 in my case) but high cut-off temperature?
What is the idea: to make the burner activate as little as possible and stay on as long as possible?
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Pilpoill
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Re: Help with tweaking Easypell settings: setpoint temperature, min and boiler cut-off




by Pilpoill » 22/01/22, 19:15

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MartinRev
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Re: Help with tweaking Easypell settings: setpoint temperature, min and boiler cut-off




by MartinRev » 23/01/22, 16:14

indeed these topics helped me. I was able to see that my Easytronic Plus regulation is only a rebadged Pelletronic Plus regulation. Difficult to know however on which version it is based.

I still have some questions but I observed this:
by default, the regulation settings (mini boiler temp 60 / boiler ++: 10°) give a cut-off temperature of 70°, therefore a delta of 10° between burner start-up and shutdown, therefore fairly short cycles.
As recommended by many, I have set the minimum boiler temp to 62 and boiler ++ to 15. This gives a cut-off temperature of 77. And it actually works well like that. As soon as the boiler drops below 62, the burner request is made until the boiler temperature exceeds 77 and it switches to modulation mode until the temperature drops below 62. The boiler does not never really stop.
When we start from the operating cycle, we are talking about this whole cycle, from the triggering of the burner to the retriggering of the burner, right?
In my case I observed that the duration of use of the burner was of the order of a little more than twenty minutes, followed by a period of modulation of approximately 35/40 (it is 3- 4 degrees outside today).
Are these cycles consistent?

On the other hand I therefore raised the minimum temperature of the boiler above the pump limit (60) so that the circulator and the 3V valve do not stop, which is the case with these settings (the burner starts the boiler at 62 and it drops again to 60 before rising again without the circulator stopping or the valve closing). Is this also the optimal operating principle sought? Or, on the contrary, should we aim to stop these while the boiler is warmed up?
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Pilpoill
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Re: Help with tweaking Easypell settings: setpoint temperature, min and boiler cut-off




by Pilpoill » 24/01/22, 08:44

MartinRev wrote:...
When we start from the operating cycle, we are talking about this whole cycle, from the triggering of the burner to the retriggering of the burner, right?
In my case I observed that the duration of use of the burner was of the order of a little more than twenty minutes, followed by a period of modulation of approximately 35/40 (it is 3- 4 degrees outside today).
Are these cycles consistent?

At Okofen (therefore probably the same for Easypell), a cycle begins as soon as the candle is lit and ends when the end of combustion (modulation at 0%) is triggered by the boiler.
If I interpret your observations correctly, your cycle was therefore 55 to 60 minutes in total.
Which is much better than your 15 min cycles 8)


MartinRev wrote:...
On the other hand I therefore raised the minimum temperature of the boiler above the pump limit (60) so that the circulator and the 3V valve do not stop, which is the case with these settings (the burner starts the boiler at 62 and it drops again to 60 before rising again without the circulator stopping or the valve closing). Is this also the optimal operating principle sought? Or, on the contrary, should we aim to stop these while the boiler is warmed up?

If with your new settings the v3v does not close and your circulator continues to operate, it's perfect.

However, if the circulator were to stop, your boiler has dropped below 60 following a high calorie demand; but as it protects itself by cutting off the circulators, not only to worry.

EDIT:
Regarding your cycles, look on page 4 of this topic: heating-insulation / adjustment-boiler-easypell-t15872.html
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MartinRev
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Re: Help with tweaking Easypell settings: setpoint temperature, min and boiler cut-off




by MartinRev » 24/01/22, 09:07

Yes, that's what I noticed all day yesterday, cycles of 50 to 60 min without the boiler really stopping (except when the tank lid was opened during modulation).

I don't think that the cycles before these settings were only 15 minutes because the only information available in the boiler is the burner time and the number of ignitions, and according to the calculations this corresponds well to the periodicity of the burner, without information on the duration of the complete cycle.
But without having always had my nose on it before, I have rarely observed the display of the boiler indicating less than 100% during the heating period. But there it modulates well up to 30% before reaching 77 deg (the minimum I think. The boiler is a 16k and in the manual it says "partial load: 5kw", it seems to correspond).

Now remains to be seen whether this has an influence on consumption.
I tend to think that if I ask for a higher temperature and therefore a longer burner period I would consume more. But on the other hand if the cycle is longer there is less start-up.
Is there still something to tweak at this level (eg lowering the cut-off temp a little to 75)?
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Pilpoill
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Re: Help with tweaking Easypell settings: setpoint temperature, min and boiler cut-off




by Pilpoill » 24/01/22, 09:25

It's all about compromise and I can't tell you which one will suit you best. : Wink:


For the record, more than a year ago after spending days remotely adjusting an installation at a member's to give him acceptable cycles, he finally changed everything to obtain incessant on/off; boiler AND circulator, like 30 years ago…
He previously had an oil boiler and never wanted to admit that he had to operate in the longest possible cycle with a pellet boiler. All the explanations were in vain to make him understand that the opposite was necessary for the consumption of pellets.
Since this episode, for the compromises and well I no longer put myself in the shoes of anyone sorry : Oops:
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