Climate change: CO2, warming, greenhouse ...Is the carbon offset business good for the planet?

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Christophe
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Is the carbon offset business good for the planet?

Unread Messageby Christophe » 08/03/20, 13:43

In application for a few years now, I would like to take stock of carbon offsetting in 2020!

It was brought up to date on the general public with the famous insulation at 1 euro but what about it really?

What is carbon offsetting in 2020? We're going to be limited to France because I think it's already quite complex like that!

Who is affected by carbon offsetting?

Is it forced or voluntary?

Is the offset linked to the carbon tax (does it exist?)?

What are the compensated quantities? (in absolute and%)?

What is the economic weight of this business?

Who regulates this market and CO2 exchanges?

Who checks whether the compensations have been made and measures their real impact?

Do carbon exchanges still exist?

And most importantly, does carbon offsetting really work? From a physical point of view I mean, because from an economic point of view, it is certain that it works since large companies pay millions in compensation each year ... Janco responded intelligently to the question ... but it was in 2008: climate-change-co2 / carbon-offset-or-co2-the-jancovici-notice-t4846.html

Has the situation changed since? Hence this development!

And then, importantly, the added value (the famous abstract value of Ahmed) of carbon offsetting ... will it not emit even more carbon and therefore make the whole operation unnecessary?

That's a lot of questions but I think it's an important subject, which could be even more in the future!

Some ecologists speak of powder in the eyes about carbon offset ... after I think it is still beneficial somewhere to do these projects even if the impact is reduced (for the moment) ... And if a dictatorship imposed carbon overcompensation? Clear 200% of emissions from each large company? : Cheesy:

Former topics on carbon offset, I recommend in particular the (re) reading of the article (file rather) of Jancovici:

climate-change-co2 / carbon-offset-or-co2-the-jancovici-notice-t4846.html

climate-change-co2 / carbon-offset-t13195.html

climate-change-co2 / co2-the-carbon-exchange-scandal-t12184.html
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Is the carbon offset business good for the planet?

Unread Messageby sicetaitsimple » 09/03/20, 11:47

I'm afraid that you have raked a little too wide, by putting under the term "carbon offset" a number of mechanisms (carbon tax, CO2 market, offset in the strict sense, we could add support for renewables, ... .) which certainly all revolve more or less around a desire to reduce emissions, but which are or may in practice be independent of each other.

In short, the cake seems a little too big for someone to feel the courage to start cutting it! Especially since the first will inevitably come under fire from critics of those who think it cuts it very badly!
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Re: Is the carbon offset business good for the planet?

Unread Messageby sicetaitsimple » 09/03/20, 11:59

To complete, and illustrate, I have for example always been a supporter of the ETS (Emission Trading Scheme, in short what some call "the rights to pollute") as it works in Europe (even if in practice it did not work well for several years, but it is explainable).

I think that just saying that can trigger a wave of indignant reactions that will necessarily distance us from a subject that is a little too global.
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ABC2019
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Re: Is the carbon offset business good for the planet?

Unread Messageby ABC2019 » 09/03/20, 13:20

sicetaitsimple wrote:To complete, and illustrate, I have for example always been a supporter of the ETS (Emission Trading Scheme, in short what some call "the rights to pollute") as it works in Europe (even if in practice it did not work well for several years, but it is explainable).

it is explainable because the real emissions fell whereas the duties had anticipated an increase, so that the price fell completely.
This shows an absurdity of the system of "cap and trade" which I am surprised that it was not anticipated by the skulls of eggs which promote it, it is that insofar as one emits a certain number of rights the market will tend to adjust the emissions on the rights issued and not lower them as much as possible. What does not make sense if one wants to "tend towards zero", one does nothing but tend towards the estimated value at the start, or otherwise the price drops so much that it no longer has any effectiveness.
I think that just saying that can trigger a wave of indignant reactions that will necessarily distance us from a subject that is a little too global.

not outraged, sorry ...
Otherwise on the "carbon offset", it has no other interest than green washing. What matters at the end is the total perimeter of the resources extracted. "Compensation" could be a means of sequestering part of the fossil CO2 in the form of plants (reforestation), but in practice the estimate shows that it is marginal, we may have enough to store a few tens of ppm of CO2, n no more. This is not what will change the face of the world ...
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Re: Is the carbon offset business good for the planet?

Unread Messageby sicetaitsimple » 09/03/20, 14:50

ABC2019 wrote:it is explainable because the real emissions fell whereas the duties had anticipated an increase, so that the price fell completely.
This shows an absurdity of the "cap and trade" system .....


Yes, that's basically it. But the absurdity was not specifically in the ETS (or cap and trade), but in the juxtaposition of several European systems and / or objectives in parallel, including support for renewables.
It is not a question of saying one is better than the other, each has its advantages and disadvantages, but if you want to kill a chicken for the Sunday meal you do not take a gun at the same time, a knife, an ax and I don't know what else. Otherwise there are two of the three that are not used.
Sorry for the chicken, but it was the comparison that came to my mind .... : Oops:
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Re: Is the carbon offset business good for the planet?

Unread Messageby Christophe » 09/03/20, 18:11

sicetaitsimple wrote:I'm afraid that you have raked a little too wide, by putting under the term "carbon offset" a number of mechanisms (carbon tax, CO2 market, offset in the strict sense, we could add support for renewables, ... .) which certainly all revolve more or less around a desire to reduce emissions, but which are or may in practice be independent of each other.


Precisely it was to make a global point with the legislation in France: carbon tax, carbon exchange and compensation are rather linked, right?

Support for renewable energies therefore at the exit from fossils is only indirectly linked to carbon offsetting ...

So let's focus on the "carbon market" from a general point of view.

To start: how much is the carbon tax (€ / Tonne of CO2 emitted)? And who should pay it?
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Re: Is the carbon offset business good for the planet?

Unread Messageby sicetaitsimple » 09/03/20, 18:30

Christophe wrote: carbon tax, carbon exchange and offset are rather linked, right?


In fact that is the problem, it is not obvious! Except CO2 quotas ETS and CDM (clean development mechanisms) which are suddenly a real gas plant!
https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/ets/credits_fr
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Re: Is the carbon offset business good for the planet?

Unread Messageby Christophe » 09/03/20, 20:12

Greenhouse gas plant ... of course!

Okay ... so let's proceed by order and simply not to mix everything ... it's been a while since I noticed that complexification was a political strategy! : Cheesy:

Let us take stock successively of each of the mechanisms linked to the "CO2 business" ...
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