Greta facing the deputies

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ABC2019
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View ABC2019 » 16/07/20, 14:26

izentrop wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:When we have exceeded 1,5 ° C and the fossil peak has been naturally reached, so that we will be on a naturally decreasing slope (with crises at the end), what will become of the discourse?
The peak is already reached for conventional oil and the decreasing slope, we have been experiencing it for a long time.


uh no that of fossil consumption, it's only been 3 months. And few people seem willing to let it continue to decrease without doing anything ...

The world lives on credit there, with debt that cannot be repaid.

We are at 1.25 °, so the 1.5 ° are not far and the retroactive effects we will type them inexorably, so your question does not need to be, but good! Monsieur is more in the know than the scientists at the IPCC.

in case you don't know, the "IPCC scientists" are climatologists, so on the issue of fossil reserves, they have no particular expertise.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View GuyGadebois » 16/07/20, 15:10

ABC2019 wrote:in case you don't know, the "IPCC scientists" are climatologists, so on the issue of fossil reserves, they have no particular expertise.

Since you are neither a climatologist, nor an ecologist, nor-nor an expert on fossil fuels (or anything at all, for that matter) we can hope that you will end up closing it and that you will take care of your virtual vegetable patch ... : Mrgreen:
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View ABC2019 » 16/07/20, 15:11

GuyGadebois wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:in case you don't know, the "IPCC scientists" are climatologists, so on the issue of fossil reserves, they have no particular expertise.

Since you are neither a climatologist, nor an ecologist, nor-nor an expert on fossil fuels (or anything at all, for that matter) we can hope that you will end up closing it and that you will take care of your virtual vegetable patch ... : Mrgreen:

Is the medical expert speaking there? : Shock:
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View GuyGadebois » 16/07/20, 15:13

ABC2019 wrote:Is the medical expert speaking there? : Shock:

No, he is the one who put it very deep ... : Mrgreen:
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View Paul72 » 16/07/20, 17:49

The peak of fossils is already reached for oil, we are on a plateau (for how long?). But for coal and gas, we still have room ... Alas
The 1,5 degrees of increase are almost reached (perhaps by 2030-2040?), And if the use of fossils stagnates or even increases further, we will quickly reach 3 degrees ...
Only a strong overall decrease in emissions can move us away from this scenario (let's add methane, whose emissions are also increasing, mainly from agriculture and mining leaks)
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View ABC2019 » 16/07/20, 18:35

Paul72 wrote:The peak of fossils is already reached for oil, we are on a plateau (for how long?). But for coal and gas, we still have room ... Alas
The 1,5 degrees of increase are almost reached (perhaps by 2030-2040?), And if the use of fossils stagnates or even increases further, we will quickly reach 3 degrees ...

but if we are at the peak is that it does not increase, it decreases ..
Only a strong overall decrease in emissions can move us away from this scenario (let's add methane, whose emissions are also increasing, mainly from agriculture and mining leaks)


so everything is fine this is what she did this year, everyone seems very happy.
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View Paul72 » 16/07/20, 20:06

You play on words so let's be precise: maximum production, that does not mean that it necessarily drops immediately, rather a plateau fluctuating at first (how long that I do not know).
As for the drop in use, this year it is not only suffered, but remains moderate. A few decades of lack of anticipation and we continue to hardly anticipate the decline ... So it will probably be suffered with consequences that remain difficult or even impossible to predict on societies and the way of managing energy in the future (productions and uses). Broad topic...
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View realistic ecology » 22/07/20, 18:25

izentrop wrote:
The climate and ecological crisis cannot be resolved in today's political and economic systems. It is no longer an opinion. It's a fact...

The climate and ecological crisis cannot be resolved in today's political and economic systems. (The political systems, plural.)
Without a doubt ; but with what to replace all these political systems?
And is it enough to change the system? A political system can leave its mark on the behavior of people, but it cannot radically transform them, they will remain human, and will continue to do as they have done for millennia and centuries.
What men have been doing for centuries: they try to have the means to consume more. And everywhere and always, when they had the means, as long as there was something in the coffers, as long as they had purchasing power, they consumed excessively, food, sex, pageantry. We saw it among the rich Romans of the time of the empire, among the satraps of Persia, among the Maharajas in India, in the royal and princely courts, in the splendor of the court of the Emperor of China which dazzled so much Marco Polo, in the luxury of the first classes of the Titanic. (obviously there are some exceptions, a few hermits, an endangered species)

The climate and ecological crisis comes from excessive consumption of the earth's renewable resources. The surface of cultivable land disappears, the oceans are emptied of fish, the mines are exhausted.

Is there a system that can resist the urge, the urge to consume? I do not know any.
We tried. Communism in books, before it became real and Soviet. See what the men have done with it! Human nature having remained what it was, we had to build walls so as not to be disturbed while we tried to bend human nature by force, to convert it to the beautiful ideas of sharing and pooling. She didn't fold.
She does not bend easily, you have to deal with men as they are.

A new political system is therefore undoubtedly necessary, but which will have to do with old men.
If this new political and economic system produces purchasing power, men will spend it on goods and services as always ... it would be a revolution for nothing.
If this new political and economic system produces less purchasing power, men will revolt.

We consume too much because sobriety is unnatural
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ABC2019
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View ABC2019 » 22/07/20, 18:57

Fairly agree with what you are saying, except that the main problem of our society is the consumption of NON-renewable resources (that said it is the abundance of non-renewable resources which allows to deplete renewable resources .. if we didn't have motorboats, we wouldn't be able to empty the oceans so much).
and on the problem of "too much" ... nobody has ever been able to define what "enough" and "too" are. We consume fossils like a forest fire consumes wood. Do we say that a fire consumes "too much" wood? above all, it consumes all the wood that is at its disposal, and when there is no more, it goes out. Our civilization will certainly do the same ...
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Re: Greta facing the deputies




View Ahmed » 22/07/20, 22:00

It is the peculiarity of civilizations to establish inequality between its members, from which this compulsive consumption arises in the most efficient of them. Nothing to do with any human "essence", as shown by many societies (which have made up most of human history) which under-exploit (rather under-exploit) their environment far below their capacity to action.
Closer to us, the claim of the workers of the first English industrial revolution who demanded the right to limit working time to only what was necessary for them ... and many other examples that timely negligence allows itself to be forget...
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