Strikes: freedom, equality, fraternity strike the 2 mentions ...

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toto65
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by toto65 » 16/11/07, 23:07

I'm not sure of myself.
But if we reduce pensions, we reduce the purchasing power of retired consumers, right?
Politically it is like shooting yourself in the foot. If the engine of growth is consumption.
Thus, by the increase in their number and by that of their income, retirees are the inevitable future of consumption.

http://www.ensae.org/gene/main.php?base ... rticle=146
If we extend the contribution time, we reduce the shift of positions for the active?
So we don't promote employment. This is ... : Shock: not easy.

The solution ==> full employment.
Thanks to expensive energy? : Idea:
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by Christophe » 17/11/07, 09:59

The link you give clearly shows that the purchasing power of retirees has exploded and your reasoning is not wrong (assuming that retirees spend a large part in the country and not abroad) but we could do exactly the same reasoning about consumption concerning the active population, a population which very often works to align the two ends ....

But the (too?) Famous purchasing power of assets is just falling ... is this linked to the increase in purchasing power of seniors? Nothing is less certain ... moreover the example of this retiree who combines retirement (2000 €) and work (1000 €) because 2000 € net was not enough to "live" at 60 years old (when we generally have more dependent children) had really annoyed me: https://www.econologie.com/forums/travail-de ... t4133.html

Otherwise in general: the economy of a country depends on the morale and productivity of the active ... not the purchasing power of the inactive who is paid by the active (well ... partly because often retirees have other income: investment, real estate, stock market ...).

However to motivate an employee, the salary, therefore his purchasing power, is generally a good argument (obviously there is a% of the active population which does its job by conviction or the salary does not matter BUT it is not the majority ...) or that low more and more ... then how to have a chance to revive the economy in these conditions without deep reforms?

I hope that all those who yell today in the street have (and will not have) children in precarious professional situation ... because it is partly their fault!

Finally, I would be curious to know what is the% of the budget of wage or employer charges represents pensions ... Because "we yell" often against the Remists and Unemployed who plague hiring ... but what about pensions in comparison?

En conclusion I think that'it is quite normal, after having contributed all your life, to have a decent retirement which allows to live decently. On the other hand, it is less normal to constantly increase your purchasing power in order to have "always more" (motorhomes, cruises, trips ... etc etc) ... to the detriment of other categories of the population. ..
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by Kyos » 17/11/07, 11:26

Hello

During this discussion, I noted in particular interventions affirming, quite rightly, that the right to strike exists. Certainly, but I have not noted anything concerning the right to work, which also exists. It is enough to see what is happening to see the obvious: the strikers and pro-strikers speak of their right, but not of their duty, nor of the rights of others. And why should the right of a few% of "workers" (because it is only a few% given the rate of unionization and the percentage of those who want to continue) be imposed? Worse, why do some non-strikers refuse to speak openly for fear of retaliation?

Regarding the days of paid strikes, I am surprised that some say the opposite. How many times have I heard on TV a union official claiming this, and even setting it up before any discussion.

As for wages and career development possibilities, low supposedly for the first and nonexistent or saying for the second, well, people using these arguments should go for a walk in the private sector. The wage standard and most often the minimum wage, and career development does not exist for workers or employees, at least for most of those who do not work in large groups. However, the majority of employees are located in SMEs. And in most of these companies, no benefits either (vacation bonuses, double months, profit sharing ...), nor of CE distributing what is not a salary, but which is indeed a kind of remuneration.

And finally, the arduous work issue, I know a lot of people in the private sector who would willingly exchange with a public job.
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by nlc » 17/11/07, 12:09

Always off topic :?

Christophe wrote:Electronic design, with Asian and Indian competition I understand that you have to do 16h days to stay out of the water ... :?

In fact not quite, because we do not produce the cards that we design, we leave that to people whose specialty is. In addition we are targeting niche markets where there is still a little room.

Christophe wrote:If you think that some of your products could be offered on our shop, contact me in MP ... you never know?

For the moment not yet, but thank you for the proposal, because I have a head full of ideas, especially on solar. As soon as we have a hollow we try to develop clean products, so maybe in a few months why not.
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by gegyx » 17/11/07, 19:20

Letter from a striking railway worker

Dear Client,

I am on strike today and I am assuming it. Yes, I assume to have
cause you problems in your daily routine, I assume to
force you to change your daily habits.

I am accused of taking you hostage. But did I lock you up, you
did i tie? No, I leave you free. Free in the midst of
constraints that you accept every day without complaining.
I fully assume to let you see your channels, because these
chains are also mine. Because I too have to do
babysitting when i start in the early morning, me too, when i
come home in the evening, I open my bill box which used to be called a box
at letters, I too sometimes sprawl on the sofa to eat
obediently the soup of the TV, because I too live in this
society. Yes, I assume it. As I assume the constraints of my profession
who make me live apart from the group, who make me work before you
to take you to work and after you to take you home.
To take you with your family to spend the holidays, I do not
not go into mine. I transport you and by definition, my
work begins where yours ends, and vice versa.

When I made the decision to do this job 15 years ago, I weighed
the price of my separation from collective life, by the schedules
wacky. This price, I accepted it and I intend to make me pay it.

Of course, I'm not the worst-off on earth. Of course, there are
much worse and much more unhappy. But should we feel guilty
to have a roof over your head when you see the homeless? Should we feel guilty
to have a job counting the unemployed? Should we feel guilty
to defend oneself?

My defense, I prepared it. Because the election results of
may have left no doubts. The conflict would take place, historically it
had to take place. Where and when ? You have the answer today. By
that, I do not hide it from you, He was still on Bolloré's yacht
that I was putting aside the money necessary for this fight. If necessary
the one planned for some futile projects will be used and too bad if the
home theater is not coming to my home this year. What, I could have
pay me a home theater and I'm on the street? Well i also
assume it. And without any shame since I read that the brand that
sells the largest plasma screen, a toy for a hundred thousand euros,
was also targeting the personal market in France. I am given 2600
euros per month to drive the trains, not to buy my silence and
my docility. There are much better off trade unionists at MEDEF who have
always a tear to fall on their lot.

This is also why I assume to go on strike today.

I am accused of not showing solidarity because the reform
is required and must be approved. By dint of reading the reports of the
Retirement Orientation Council, by dint of reading everything that can
fall under the eyes speaking of retirement, from the senate to the stupid blog, I
gained the conviction that all of this could have been avoided, for me as
for you, if our leaders had prepared these deadlines as I have
prepared for this strike.

We were told about a disaster, bankruptcy, even bankruptcy
any honest economist will tell you, in 2000, the effort
predictable to achieve, without changing anything for pensions, for 40
coming years was calculated lower than that provided during the 40
years gone by. We showed that the small end of the telescope, we didn't
not said that the wealth of the country would increase faster than this burden,
even in the worst case scenarios. Was there this baby boom problem? And
so, is that a reason to put everything down when it was enough to
fill the pension reserve fund created in 2002, the only
real honest reform made on the subject? What does a household do when
he knows that an expense will come? Either he saves or he borrows,
either he waits and tightens his belt when the time comes. This is the way
that our leaders have chosen, it is regrettable but I am a citizen and
I respect the votes. So this policy which is not the
mine, I assume it including the consequences, including this strike.

Today, I refuse to do my job in society because
I have a different to settle with this company. I use a legal means,
constitutional, causing embarrassment that I fully assume because
I am in a company which makes profits and which, alone, pays
the benefits of my pension plan. An employer contribution
almost 12% higher than that of your boss, or about 500
million, to compensate for a lower retirement age than yours, in
conditions often inferior to yours elsewhere. The rest ? This is
what we would pay together if we were in the same plan.
Besides, the compensation between schemes benefits artisans at 93.7%,
traders, employees and farmers, and in 2015, my plan
will no longer be a beneficiary of the system but will become a contributor. These
12% are mine, not my business, which would like to recover them.
Like the employers' contributions, which the bosses gladly call "
charges ”, are yours, paying in advance your right to health or
retirement. This is because the only person stolen from this reform
it's me, I totally assume to claim my due. I am told that these are
ultimately paying customers. Has it been said so loudly to customers
of Carrefour who paid the end of employment conditions of the boss
then? It is also said to be strong of all these retreats hats, bonuses
departures and other joys made to the leaders of large
businesses? Is it also said so strongly of the advantages of other employees? AT
this last title, it is good to calculate that 5 years of bonus on a
40-year career ultimately represents little more than a month and
half a year. I have never had a thirteenth month, is the advantage if
exorbitant?

So I assume I do not want to lose this 12% in this reform which does not
will bring you nothing. The expected gain is around 200 million
euros per year. At this rate, it will take 75 years to reimburse the 15
billion tax gifts made this summer! Am i still the
privileged of this society?

But much more. This reform, like the previous ones, will cost you
a lot, it will cost us all a lot. Because this is the
solidarity that we are killing today. This solidarity wanted by our
fathers in the aftermath of the war, this unbearable solidarity for whom
claims liberalism and every man for himself. This solidarity which
the deep meaning does not exceed, for our government, the concept of
Sunday alms. But for me it makes sense, because it is
deeply human. It is it, the cement of our society. What's the point
live like wolves where the dominant couple eat first and where the
last eats what's left? All eat, of course, but is this the model
that we want for our society? Is this the example for our children
? My deep conviction is that human society cannot be based
only on solidarity, on mutual aid. This is what I believe in
and that's why I take on this fight.

And I remember 1995. You were 75% behind us! Other era
where we carried hope, where we saw people come to bring a
day of wages in our strike fund asking us to do
strike for them. Striking is not my job. I assume to have
to give up this hope for want of being able to carry it alone. I assume
today to fight first for me, first rule of this
liberal society that I want to fight. This is paradoxical ? Yes, but
I assume this paradox because you no longer love me today and that
this disaffection is the result of a fight that you did not want
lead, mistakenly believing that I would do it for you. Our fathers
beaten, some died, for our holidays, our pensions, our health
and for many other things. Who remembers the price today
paid by them for our benefits from employees of rich countries?

Some will lose their jobs, it seems. But who is stupid enough to
accuse me and leave this crack of personnel manager in peace
who will cynically use this alibi, this sub-man incapable of
consider your neighbor as your equal in difficulty? Well,
yes, I assume to provide this fallacious alibi to this person who does not
should have nothing to do in the society of men.

Not long ago, we railway workers had a full slogan
for the future, we wanted to share progress for all. Remember: "
Progress is not worth ... "Where is this progress today, where the Man of
this century has locked its freedom in a TV and a laptop? Where one
extols the so-called merits of liberalism without speaking of its
disadvantages like precariousness? Where we destroy the future of our
children forgetting the fights of our fathers? Where we sell off
solidarity society if we are left alone? Where is he the
progress today?

I assume all of this, dear client, dear client, I assume everything.

Philippe DUVERNAY
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by Christophe » 17/11/07, 19:25

nlc wrote:especially on the sun. As soon as we have a hollow we try to develop clean products, so maybe in a few months why not.


There may be something to do with "simple" solar regulators (comparator + overheating safety) ... that you could offer from 50 to 100 € instead of the 500 € "normal price" ...

See the solar regulators from 20 years ago that still work ...

See the ones I just got: https://www.econologie.com/forums/installati ... 4-110.html
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by Christophe » 17/11/07, 20:24

Can the defenders of "supposedly unprivileged EDF employees" give us a little rundown on their EdF invoices, just paid at 10% of their market price? Please?

https://www.econologie.com/forums/post62093.html#62093
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by gegyx » 17/11/07, 20:50

http://www.dailymotion.com/netrunner/vi ... egime-news

A journalist from France Inter does an interview with Françoise de Panafieu on strikes. Panafieu explains to us that certain advantages must be abandoned ... But when the journalist asks him a question about the deputies' pension plan, then there is a disaster! Panafieu refuses to answer then after a few moments abruptly launches a "You leave us alone! Okay?". Someone asks the reporter what radio station she works for, then the interview is cut off.
Freedom of press?
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by Christophe » 17/11/07, 20:55

Sorry gegyx but it's just an anecdotal your thing ... but I'm still appalled by the lack of "preparation" of this deputies ... aren't they supposed to be smart guys?
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toto65
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by toto65 » 17/11/07, 23:10

I find this extension of idea good.
Chirac will receive 30.000 € per month.
Sarko 23.250 €
You only need to have a single deputy mandate (1 years) in your life to have € 5 from the age of 1500. I don't know if it's crude or net. Apparently crude.
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/5143 ... me-special
Of course motivation is not the lure of gain but the militant fiber ... Finally ...
Last edited by toto65 the 17 / 11 / 07, 23: 20, 1 edited once.
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