Resignation of Benedict XVI and the new Pope Francis

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Janic
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by Janic » 24/03/13, 14:08

I let myself still have! (without forcing it, you have to recognize it)
The astronomical difference between the Self and the monotheist vision is that the Self does not refer to an anthropomorphic concept, and that changes everything ...
No actually it is an abstract concept so not related to humans! So a view of the mind: so what is the point of a simple view of the mind?
I do not share this opinion at all.
There are many other models of very old societies with taboos.
The command on the flight concerns only a materialistic society where the notion of ownership is anchored in the socio-culture.
For many people this notion simply does not make sense ...
Still basic, the laws are not preventive but curative, without thieves no flights and no flights no laws relating thereto. The 10 lyrics are curative, intended to straighten out what is twisted and must therefore be placed in their historical context.
Moreover, the 10 commandments were only for the Hebrew.
they are not commandments, they are an alliance, a mutual contract, and this major point is misunderstood. The reason given is: " When the nations around you see the blessings that are yours, they will turn to you and ask who your god is so we follow him. "(Always in a context where atheism is not a dominant religion) or more scripturally" This will be your wisdom in the eyes of the people because when they have knowledge of all these laws, they will say "she can only be wise and intelligent this nation! Indeed where are the people large enough to have divinities as accessible as the Lord our god is for whenever we invoke it... »Deuteronomy 4-5
It is commonly accepted that most biblical facts have been greatly exaggerated.
Always by whom? Atheist historians? Pagans-Christians (just read the Catholic comments of the TOB who have always known how to take the direction of the wind!)
Theological studies have shown that Moses did not travel in the Red Sea ... but took advantage of the waters of Lake Tanis to retreat to escape Pharaoh.
Completely wrong. These are only suppositions that seek to reconcile historically more or less known natural events and apply them to biblical texts. (like the books of Mordillat and Prieur!) Or none is really adaptable. So where the original texts are false (and no one can affirm it as proving it) or antisemitic rationalism seeks to diminish the meaning that these texts seek to communicate.
We are therefore very far from the myth (thank you Hollywood) of the waters opening as if by magic to let the "righteous" pass.
We must not fall into the trap of these cinematic representations. It's a fiction, not a report with scientific or cultural documents in support.
For Christ, the gap between the writing of the Dead Sea and the Gnostic text describes a character completely different from the biblical superman who raises the dead and distributes the loaves.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are silent about an Essene Jesus. They say nothing but the customs of a particular religious group and not representative of the variety of the time: Pharisees, Saduceans, Essenes, Zealots, etc.
The Hellenic culture is very much there, to convert a maximum of people the history of Christ has been largely modified in order to stuck to the cult of the time such as that of Hercules, Mitra, Appolon etc ...
What a mix!
Many "believers" have faith only in the fact that such or such a character was endowed with "superpowers".
Still next to the plate! While some are attracted by supernatural manifestations such as metaphysical apparitions, but this is the lot of a small fringe (2,2 billions of "Christian" individuals) the Christ Jesus was not followed for his super powers ( even if some saw in them the power of God) but for his teaching and his practice as all the wise men of this planet.
If tomorrow it was said that Christ was simply a sage, and that the supernatural character of his coming into the world was an allegory, I wonder if the faithful would be so numerous?
Apart from the superstitious, the thirsty for the extraordinary, of course! If you studied the conversions closely, you would find that they are rather ordinary, they mainly come from an awareness that in religious language one can call a revelation as for the disciples of Ramana Maharshi or Buddha. Apart from those who made Jesus an incarnate god, the others only see him as a master (or rabbi in Hebrew) and what comes up regularly is “teach us” and not “do miracles”.
Finally, what is a pity is this mixture between historical reality and more or less intellectual fabrications and abstractions.
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by sen-no-sen » 24/03/13, 15:56

Janic wrote:I let myself still have! (without forcing it, you have to recognize it)
The astronomical difference between the Self and the monotheist vision is that the Self does not refer to an anthropomorphic concept, and that changes everything ...
No actually it is an abstract concept so not related to humans! So a view of the mind: so what is the point of a simple view of the mind?


As I mentioned earlier, conceptions play a fundamental role in influencing civilizations.
In worship Shinto for example (animism) every thing has a Us or spirit.
This results in a deep respect for the surrounding world.

The monotheistic vision - even if it was not conceived in this perspective - to lead to a dualistic vision: God, nature and man.
This has led us to a conception of the world-especially-in the West, which has not been without harmful effects.


Completely wrong. These are only suppositions that seek to reconcile historically more or less known natural events and apply them to biblical texts.


The original texts refer to a marshy area that corresponds to a lake not to the Red Sea.
To believe that an arm of the sea has opened to let people pass makes me think of Santa Claus! But everyone is free to believe.

or antisemitic rationalism


What is antisemitic rationalism?

The Dead Sea Scrolls are silent about an Essene Jesus.


I do not have complete works ...!

What a mix!

All religions are the fruit of mixing ...

Christ Jesus was not followed for his super powers (even though some saw in them the power of God) but for his teaching and his practice as all the sages of this planet.


Not in fact most Christians (like Mulsumans etc ...) are because they bathed from their youth in families that were converted.
So the 2,2 billions of theoretical Christians have only followed their socio-culture.
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by Janic » 24/03/13, 18:16

Quote:
Christ Jesus was not followed for his super powers (even though some saw in them the power of God) but for his teaching and his practice as all the sages of this planet.

Not in fact most Christians (like Mulsumans etc ...) are because they bathed from their youth in families that were converted.
So the 2,2 billions of theoretical Christians have only followed their socio-culture.

We can see that you regularly use these circles to draw such certainty and that you have studied these religious currents closely! Once again you take the rotten old crate as a reference rather than the new car. But I repeat constantly that the pagano christianity (which you speak superficially) is a deviance and you continue to use this deviance as a reference. It is like taking a bedridden old man, crippled with rheumatism and learning from it that humanity must use it as a reference. There are some old people, but there are also young people so why not use this more representative category as a model of humanity?
But even if there are 99% of the world's population Gentile-Christian on this earth, they would not be representative of the "Judeo-Christianity" taught by the master himself.
Likewise, when Buddhists recommend themselves to the Buddha, they refer to his teaching and not to the religio-political errors of the various forms of "Buddhism". We must stop these mixtures which only create confusion in the minds and which serve atheism to self-justify their philosophical position tinged with errors and ignorance.
I do not have complete works ...!
even if they would own them all, you would find nothing! If it were otherwise, each religion concerned would have seized it to prove itself right. But nothing but suppositions, of speculation that maybe ... or maybe not!
example:
http://www.interbible.org/interBible/de ... 041029.htm

Jesus is not mentioned in any writing from Qumran simply because they all predate him. Even though manuscripts are dated to the first century after, they are only copies of earlier works. But, by pure hypothesis, even if the inhabitants of Qumran had known Jesus of Nazareth, it is far from certain that they would have spoken of it in their writings. The Qumran group lived isolated from the rest of Judaism of its time. This is why we often speak of the "sect" of Qumran. Challenging the priesthood of Jerusalem and its temple, challenging the liturgical calendar in use and other observances of Judaism, the Essenes claimed to be the only elected and showed some violence in their assertions. Their messianic doctrine had nothing to do with a crucified messiah, just the opposite! We understand that, in this context, all that is not of the sect is worthless. No more Jesus of Nazareth than the priests of Jerusalem.

The only link that could be established between Qumran and Jesus would be by John the Baptist. Some have said that John the Baptist was part of the group of Essenes. But this thesis is very hypothetical and strongly contested. At first it is not certain that the inhabitants of Qumran were the Essenes (it is very probable, but there is no proof). Then, it is not certain that John the Baptist actually knew these Essenes. Finally, during the destruction of Qumran to 70 of our era, the movement from Jesus of Nazareth was still so small.

Hervé Tremblay, OP
Professor at the Dominican College of Philosophy and Theology (Ottawa)

Indeed, Jesus Christ died in the year 31 of our era and the writings of Paul (the most numerous) date from the 60 years, at the very beginning of this Judeo-Christian movement and when Paul seeks to convert the Gentiles to this new Judean branch.
What is damaging, once again, are these gratuitous and inaccurate claims. : Cry:
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by sen-no-sen » 24/03/13, 18:57

Janic wrote:We can see that you regularly use these circles to draw such certainty and that you have studied these religious currents closely! Once again you take the rotten old crate as a reference rather than the new car.


Sorry to have hurt you but when we talk about a religion or a population we refer to the majority, the 99%.
Because the vision of the world that derives from a religion or a policy or other will be applied by the majority.

Indeed, Jesus Christ died in the year 31 of our era and the writings of Paul (the most numerous) date from the 60 years, at the very beginning of this Judeo-Christian movement and when Paul seeks to convert the Gentiles to this new Judean branch.


We do not know when Christ was born, at best we can situate him in a few decades ...
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by Janic » 24/03/13, 19:56

Janic wrote:
We can see that you regularly use these circles to draw such certainty and that you have studied these religious currents closely! Once again you take the rotten old crate as a reference rather than the new car.

Sorry to have hurt you but when we talk about a religion or a population we refer to the majority, the 99%.
Because the vision of the world that derives from a religion or a policy or other will be applied by the majority.
It does not hurt me at all, I'm not religious for two cents and even basically anti-religion so I do not defend any system whatsoever.
what I blame is an opinion based on on dit and not investigated directly with those concerned, as any journalist should be (you may not be, but let's say any serious investigator) and atheism is not well placed to do so .
However, there is a historical reality that belongs to a particular culture and it is the other cultures who believe they have the right to challenge it: a height! The Israelites do not dispute the history of France that I know that it is in its civil or religious form!
Now a majority in error, even lies, does not make it a truth. The most serious is when the opponents of lies repeat them on their behalf under the pretext that it is the most widespread (unless these lies finally arrange them!)
Have you read Michel Onfray's treatise on Atheism? Which reproach (justifiably) believers to ignore their own founding discourse by disinterest in the study. And he himself draws some texts to the punch without even bothering to study their meaning and scope. We do not blame others for what we do ourselves!
Quote:
Indeed, Jesus Christ died in the year 31 of our era and the writings of Paul (the most numerous) date from the 60 years, at the very beginning of this Judeo-Christian movement and when Paul seeks to convert the Gentiles to this new Judean branch.

One hardly knows when was born the Christ, at best can one locate it to some decades ...
Another deep mistake! where do you get that from? The NT dates precisely the Christ period by historical landmarks supplemented by prophetic landmarks.
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by sen-no-sen » 24/03/13, 20:34

Janic wrote:Another deep mistake! where do you get that from? The NT dates precisely the Christ period by historical landmarks supplemented by prophetic landmarks.


Yes the new testament.
Not sure that this is an ultra neutral source.
But no matter, it does not change the message.


However, there is a historical reality that belongs to a particular culture and it is the other cultures who believe they have the right to challenge it: a height! The Israelites do not dispute the history of France that I know that it is in its civil or religious form!


We are not talking about the same thing.
I do not dispute the historical facts, I simply say that most of the founding texts are allegorical and are embellished.
This is the case for all religious texts, free for everyone to take literally or to read between the lines.

Have you read Michel Onfray's treatise on Atheism? Which reproach (justifiably) believers to ignore their own founding discourse by disinterest in the study.


Onfray is not a reference!
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by Janic » 25/03/13, 09:06

Yes the new testament.
Not sure that this is an ultra neutral source.

It is not about neutrality, everything is taken course, look, once again, the evolution is far from being a neutral source and yet it has many "believers" who give him his devotions as for any conditioning system.
But the NT is not the only one, prophetism had announced its presence (or its coming) centuries in advance with the same precision. (the relative dimension of time, past and future)
Apart from that, the NT or the AT do not pretend anything more than to be internal references as the standards on plumbing will only concern plumbers. If a non plumber challenges these standards it is up to him to demonstrate that they are false which would be problematic for all existing installations. But atheism has no plumbing skills, but claims to mix its grain of salt despite its ignorance.

Quote:
However, there is a historical reality that belongs to a particular culture and it is the other cultures who believe they have the right to challenge it: a height! The Israelites do not dispute the history of France that I know that it is in its civil or religious form!

We are not talking about the same thing.
I do not dispute the historical facts, I simply say that most of the founding texts are allegorical and are embellished.

This is called a priori because to affirm that it in itself must be able to demonstrate what, in this case, is impossible. Judaism holds them for really historicalChristianity, Islam and Buddhism also holds the Buddha as historical, as are other religions just as much, just as we hold our story as non-allegorical or embellished. (the historians do not beautify, they pass modestly on what devalues ​​or displeases the powerful of the moment)
This is the case for all religious texts, free for everyone to take literally or to read between the lines.

Yet another confusion, the Bible is not a religious text, it is a history book first of allbut which effectively links the human and social experience with its origins of created beings. Certainly not everyone is obliged to believe (but the history of Israel concerns only Israel, not the pagans) besides internally there are some who do not believe in certain spiritual-cultural dimensions and only want to see in their history a historical story, that's all!
Quote:
Have you read Michel Onfray's treatise on Atheism? Which reproach (justifiably) believers to ignore their own founding discourse by disinterest in the study.

Onfray is not a reference!

This is the least we can say, (at least for a biblical) but his approach is interesting by his research that showed him that pure and hard atheism is impossible to find even among the most anti-religious philosophers who admit the hypothesis of a metaphysical dimension escaping them.
moreover, it is frequently quoted by many atheistic sites or so-called such, but especially anti-religious. This is why atheism is more like a religion of opposition (as in politics the left opposes the right or vice versa, but both are in the system of politics) and atheism has indeed the same characteristics as he contests by an inverted mirror effect.
Now what is the strong element of atheism: materialism! All his speech is based on what he calls "material proofs" that is to say everything that passes through machines of all kinds. From the microscope to the telescope, from chemical analysis to the manufacture of consumer products, from the automobile to the scanner, etc ... matter is his god as the spirit was the god of other religions! That the machine disappears and what will remain? The emptiness, the nothingness, no more hope that is the engine of life, believers or not.
By his genius the human made even more than god himself he conquered the gravity, descended into the deepest abysses, he goes to the far heavens, he raises the dead, makes the paralytics walk, mastery the atom and the DNA .. and is in the process of breaking it. He systematically destroys this wonderful world in harmony, he pollutes, poisons, plays the apprentice sorcerers, he shouts to the world " I am more powerful than God ... who has barely managed to separate the waters of a very small swamp while we are building huge dams, skyscrapers that rise to the heavens (That two small planes are on the ground, but it does not matter, we build others) "The ecology, modern prophet, cries to mad scientists, but it is these who hold the reins of power and their materialistic madness with no other limit than destruction and death.
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by sen-no-sen » 25/03/13, 10:41

Janic wrote:Quote:
However, there is a historical reality that belongs to a particular culture and it is the other cultures who believe they have the right to challenge it: a height! The Israelites do not dispute the history of France that I know that it is in its civil or religious form!


You confuse historical reality and mythology, and the mixture of both: religious beliefs.
Greek mythology is based on historical material traces (writings, paintings, cultures etc ...) but relates facts that are imaginary based on the socio-culture of the moment.

Nothing prevents a foreign historian (many of them) from studying our history and questioning it - if there is proof - because history belongs to humanity, not to this or that nation.

Now the major difference between historical facts and religions is that in the latter case, they are strewn with fact that one could qualify as supernatural and which is more myth than reality.
In France we have Merlin the enchanting, mythological character based on characters that existed.


Judaism holds them as truly historical, Christianity too, Islam of the same, and Buddhism holds the Buddha for historical as well, as do other religions just as much, just as we hold our history for no allegorical or embellished.


As I mentioned, all religions we have been embellished and mystified.

Yet another confusion, the Bible is not a religious text, it is a history book above all,


The Bible is no longer a religious text? : Lol:
the purpose of history is to unravel the true and the false, it is a difficult exercise, the Bible is above all a compilation made through the ages in the sandstone of coyance.
It certainly relates historical facts, but its last are tinged with the mysticism of the time and have not only a goal of information.

This is why atheism is more like a religion of opposition (as in politics the left opposes the right or vice versa, but both are in the system of politics) and atheism has indeed the same characteristics as he contests by an inverted mirror effect.


Modern materialistic atheism is the logical result of Biblical monotheism.
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by Janic » 25/03/13, 13:29

You confuse historical reality and mythology, and the mixture of both: religious beliefs.
Greek mythology is based on historical material traces (writings, paintings, cultures etc ...) but relates facts that are imaginary based on the socio-culture of the moment.

This is where the rub, the Greek mythology has never asserted itself as being historical. As a result, confusion is easy between the fabulous speeches about Greek demi-gods and the gentleman everyone of the biblical speech.
Nothing prevents a foreign historian (many of them) from studying our history and questioning it - if there is proof - because history belongs to humanity, not to this or that nation.
This is true as long as the historian behaves as such and not as judge of the value of so-called historical-spiritual narratives. However, the characters judged as mythical are not kings or important characters whose history can find traces as they left and that we will find, actually, in tables, grimoires and tablets. (Abraham is only a shepherd in a small band of nomads, Moses is a slave leader, Jesus is a small rabbi in the suburbs, and our historians are hard-pressed to find anything about these particular characters and even there their skills stop at the threshold of this story and have no competence beyond.
Now the major difference between historical facts and religions is that in the latter case, they are strewn with fact that one could qualify as supernatural and which is more myth than reality.
That's still the difference between " pourrait " and " must ". The supernatural is part of everyday life for those who are the object. Negation is not enough to prevent it, hence my question again: what experience do you have directly or indirectly on these points?
(You remind me that these doctors who dogmatically declare that only their criteria on good therapies are valid and that healings, called supernatural, are impossible, are autosuggestion, that this is the end result of their own therapy, but never, oh, never, by channels that do not correspond to their indoctrination)
In France we have Merlin the enchanter, mythological character based on characters who existed.
And why not Snow White or Harry Potter, you have nothing better to offer?
Quote:
Judaism holds them for really historicalChristianity, Islam and Buddhism also holds the Buddha as historical, as are other religions just as much, just as we hold our story as non-allegorical or embellished.
As I mentioned, all religions have been embellished and mystified.
A peremptory statement does not establish a truth. On what basis do you rely?
Quote:
Yet another confusion, the Bible is not a religious text, it is a history book above all,
The Bible is no longer a religious text?
No, it's a historical text for the Hebrews, if you don't want to differentiate between religion and history, it's a shame! it is the story of a population enamelled with "divine" interventions considered normal for a nation that admits this external intervention.
the purpose of history is to unravel the true and the false, it is a difficult exercise, the Bible is above all a compilation made through the ages in the sandstone of coyance.
Still a priori based on ... suppositions or oppositions. What you call other beliefs call this experience in the lived experience.
It certainly relates historical facts, but its last are tinged with the mysticism of the time and have not only a goal of information.
It is here again that you only repeat a well oiled speech. : how is the difference between a historical narrative and a mystical story? (already that the mystical term is not the best adapted): atheism, once again, wants to make the referee exactly as the religion that preceded him wanted to judge the sciences of the matter: "White cap, white hat" or "who looks alike"
Modern materialistic atheism is the logical result of Biblical monotheism.
Not the result of biblical monotism that you seem to know badly, but religions that call themselves biblical, that's for sure! Atheism is indeed a byproduct of dominant religions as Protestantism has been a byproduct of Catholicism. We take the same ones, we dress them with white blouses rather than with dresses of bure and it is left for a turn.
PS: christophe will get tired of these drifts! :D
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by sen-no-sen » 25/03/13, 13:48

Janic wrote:And why not Snow White or Harry Potter, you have nothing better to offer?


Hello references!
The cult of the wild man communicating with nature is part of the history of humanity.
We find the same type of semi-mythological story in Japan (
In No gyoja).
They come from the culture of the first peoples and we end up becoming myths going through the ages.
Merlin the Enchantment is not just a Disney cartoon ...
For the rest, there is no big difference with the religious currents ...

A peremptory statement does not establish a truth. On what basis do you rely?



If you take literally all the facts in the Bible or elsewhere, I wish you a good night!
Besides the modern society is also formed his stories to sleep up to justify his actions, the 11 / 09 is a good example!
Humanity has always needed a narrative catalyst to allow the indoctrination of crowds.

end of HS.
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