Car manufacturers lobbying, for the engine

[freddau]

I open this subject following the discussion ( https://www.econologie.com/forums/innovation ... t2229.html ) on the MYT rotary engine and not to pollute the subject of discussion on this engine.

I already knew that the American car manufacturers had bought and closed the California railway companies to impose their model of the automobile.

What I was not interested in was the engines and the fact that they also send some good ideas from the bottom.

To try to make up for my lack of knowledge on the subject, I used wikipedia: "quasiturbine" and have a look: "wankel engine"
not all manufacturers are in the same basket, Citroen has developed Wankels and Mazda has just won "endurance races" with a rotary engine in 2005.

But thanks to the lobbying of car manufacturers, this engine was banned ??

I would say why are they doing this? You will tell me the money, etc ... etc ...
But good considering the current European, Japanese, soon Chinese competition, rising prices of raw materials and pollution prices (Kyoto) which has just not been free, that can only change right?

[Christophe]

Welcome to the real world ... hard to swallow the red pill huh?

Look what Bush (Pere & Fils Corporation) and his clique are doing to the electric car ... it's much worse I find:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/voiture-el ... t2129.html

[elephant]

in fact, what I believe is that you also need a movement of opinion.
if thanks to the internet people like us continue to let the public know and to the non-specialist press that there are better solutions, they will be forced to one day take them out of their boxes.
be careful however: only talk about proven solutions: talk about solutions like pantone or hydrogen doping: yes. bring out the loch-ness monster from the water car, as long as we haven't really seen it, no!

[I Citro]

Welcome to the real world ... hard to swallow the red pill huh?

Look what Bush (Pere & Fils Corporation) and his clique are doing to the electric car ... it's much worse I find:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/voiture-el ... t2129.html

The people at GM "confessed" ... They had the EV1s destroyed because they were not profitable, for the manufacturers, the garages, the oil tankers and therefore the government !!!
For customers, however, it was TOP cars !!!

All manufacturers can build a car that actually consumes 2 times less, but THEY DON'T WANT !!!

So we make very small improvements every year. It is known that the electrical management of peripherals for intermittent use is more economical than mechanical training. So every 10 years or so, we "innovate" by electrifying the cooling fan then the power steering, electric water pumps arrive, followed by air conditioning compressors ...

But the real (r) evolution of the heat engine is hybridization!
Not the one that we are currently being offered on the Prius (if you followed, I wrote that the builders were making small improvements) which is a parallel hybridization. The best solution today is serial hybridization.
We remove the clutch, the gearbox, the differential, the universal joints, or 15 to 30% of yield losses. The vehicle is driven by motors placed directly in the wheels which recover energy during decelerations and dispense with the braking system (hey yes). batteries and / or capacitors provide energy. The engine is relegated to the role of generator, its maximum power can be divided by 2, it only works at its optimum efficiency regime or reduced consumption.
Such vehicles exist (Cleanova with "range extender", as well as various buses and heavy goods vehicles) But no mass production is planned ... especially not !!!

[Targol]

The vehicle is driven by motors placed directly in the wheels which recover energy during decelerations and dispense with the braking system (hey yes).

Are you talking about electro-magnetic braking like "telma" (retarders mounted on buses and trucks)?

Because, if that is what you are considering, do you think that this type of device can achieve as powerful braking (therefore a stopping distance as short) as with mechanical systems based on friction like the ones that currently exist?

I think that both can coexist, no.

[freddau]

Mazda persists and signs.

Appeared in "Auto-bild": the MX8 will be marketed and powered by a Wankel engine ..........

I have to find the photo.

[denis]

The vehicle is driven by motors placed directly in the wheels which recover energy during decelerations and dispense with the braking system (hey yes).

Are you talking about electro-magnetic braking like "telma" (retarders mounted on buses and trucks)?

Because, if that is what you are considering, do you think that this type of device can achieve as powerful braking (therefore a stopping distance as short) as with mechanical systems based on friction like the ones that currently exist?

I think that both can coexist, no.

it is essential for emergency braking, on the other hand the recovery will be done during descents, slowing down, when a fire arrives, even to stop smoothly, if a telma can be violent, but it would be rather an alternator technology, the electric motor even could be double used, like the new starter / alternator (all in 1)

[Bougonnator]

Hello,
The Toyota Prius is still not very far from the ideal car brushed by Citro (minimal thermal engine, no clutch, parallel and serial coupling depending on use, etc.) but the specifications were different from that of Cleannova. Toyota wanted to make a vehicle that could be used on a daily basis and that users would want to buy, not a laboratory monster that drags itself at 80km / h on the highway ... and cannot go further than 3 service areas with 8 hours recharge between each. This brings us back to the speed of stagecoaches and post relays.

It's like the pretty prototypes of our nice French builders who don't consume anything. They are prototypes to make the front page of the general press, trade show demonstrators intended to prove the viability of diesel which smokes and stinks (and which kills with its beautiful particles and its Nox) but not usable vehicles because not sold, not approved, not finalized ...

When braking by electrical recovery, it only works by definition when the vehicle is in motion. It is not braking which can immobilize a vehicle but a retarder which can only reduce its speed. An electric brake does not stop! It is an additional system, an energy recuperator but in no case can it replace mechanical braking. At the end of the movement, you should open the door and brake with your feet!

As for the RX8, it has been sold in France for about 2 years ...

But it is true that the manufacturers still have enormous room for improvement. In their landfill, who would buy a car needing to change the entire production tool? That is to say the equivalent of a Twingo for the price of several high-end Spaces? And this at least for several years. I see fewer fingers rising. Already it does not sell almost Prius at 25000 euros ...
Welcome to the real world.

[Christophe]

Welcome to the real world.

I would rather say: "Welcome in the black Oil world."

[I Citro]

The vehicle is driven by motors placed directly in the wheels which recover energy during decelerations and dispense with the braking system (hey yes).

Are you talking about electro-magnetic braking like "telma" (retarders mounted on buses and trucks)?

No, I'm talking about wheel motors which can be used as a passive brake (energy recovery) but also as an active brake and with sufficient power to do without conventional brakes. Parking can be managed by electromechanical clutching ...

The engine thus combines engine functions, forward / reverse transmission, regenerative retarder, active braking, steering assistance, abs, esp ...

Finally I do not agree with the vision of Bougonnator (excuse me) of Cléanova. This vehicle can, if we give ourselves the means, to Paris Bordeaux by motorway with its range extender and at 130km / h. Only it will run in electric for 150km then in series hybrid for the rest of the journey. The electrical balance will be better than the hybrid balance which will be better than the balance sheet of a Prius because we will not have all the losses of a mechanical transmission or of the operation of an "automobile" engine, that is to say operating at speeds and transient loads. From this point of view a generator has a better efficiency. this is also the reason why rotary engines (wankel, quasiturbine) surely have a card to play for the future.

There are already passenger cars that work like the Cléanova. I am thinking of pick ups transformed into electrical and which have an on-board generator. As luck would have it in Canada, the country where the Cléanova traction chain comes from.