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by Christophe » 03/06/06, 21:23

babache8 wrote:Very beautiful copies of Kreidler Van Veen former world championship, ride in Belgium in old motorcycles. Christophe, have you ever seen Chimay?


Uh I'm far from Chimay and especially I'm in Belgium since 1 year ... so no I've never seen ...

When you say 200 km / h it's not the 50 anyway (although the 50 world record on the salt lake was in the 220 km / h with a Kreidler engine in a rocket fairing it seems to me .. .)? When I spoke about the Kreidler it was for the 50 ... I did not even know he had made "real bike" ...
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by babache8 » 03/06/06, 23:20

If, if, 50 cm3. Van Veen did work, it seems to me only on 50. In 1980 a world championship kreidler skirted 20 horses at 21 - 22000 rpm and 200 km / h on circuits allowing to shoot a long transmission (like spa!). On a 2 time, the smaller the cubic capacity, and the more you can get a big return.

See a 1982 / 83 JJ Cobas: 79cm3, about 35 ch (difficult to know with accuracy the power of a great price bike), fully riveted aluminum hull frame (not a single solder !!!!) for 50 kgs . At jehonville, on 10 tours, a well-conducted 350 TZ only gives him a ride !!!! It's incredible.

Imagine that with the technologies of the time (1976) Suzuki released 18 ch (officially) of its 50 twin cylinder. For the 1977 season, the engineers have designed a marvelous 3 cylinder, which unfortunately will never run, since the FIM had meanwhile forced the 50 to be single cylinder and 6 box. It was necessary to give a chance to the European brands to return to the race. For the curious, the passionate, or for a simple question, there is the MP. My hobby is the history of the grand prix, but from the technological point of view.
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by Christophe » 04/06/06, 12:15

babache8 wrote:If, if, 50 cm3. Van Veen did work, it seems to me only on 50.


Hallucinating but it does not surprise me in fact ... where are these great passionate people today ???

babache8 wrote:My hobby is the history of the grand prix, but from the technological point of view.


So let's talk a bit about the HONDA 750 NR :)

For those who have never heard of the NR, here is a small hint of its technological innovation:

Image

The NR is the bike, in my opinion, the technology was the most daring of all time ... with some V8 4 Italian tps also (remember more neither the model nor the exact mark, can be benelli?) .. .

At that time we still dared to innovate (not "small" innovations here and there like now ... :| ) and we thus created "legends" ... (but also legendary flop, it must be admitted!)

The proof in image:

Image

Here I found a nice image that should please you

Image
Last edited by Christophe the 07 / 09 / 09, 13: 51, 1 edited once.
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by babache8 » 04/06/06, 13:39

Super the valve ban sign !!!!!!!

I dare an explanation for those who do not know the NR:
The NR was initially a good idea. Fighting against the ever-increasing power of 2 tps, Honda engineers, loyal to 4 tps, were looking to improve filling. The solution was found by lengthening the piston, so they could implant 8 valves (see photo of a series NR piston in christophe's post). The problem was that reliability was never at the rendezvous. The most mocking nicknamed her the Never Ready. In fact, besides the fact that it heated a lot, there was an obvious problem of guiding the piston on a single connecting rod. Never admitting to being defeated (it's a philosophy at honda) the engineers design a new mobile crew to 8 rods (yes, 2 by pistons). The efficiency gain thanks to the multiplication of the valves is finally lost because of a very heavy and very complex vilo and the weight of 8 connecting rods. Honda then switched to 2 tps with a 3 V-cylinders.

It was still necessary to do something about all the innovations and technologies developed since all these years. And above all it was necessary to ammortir the very expensive machine tools made exclusively for the manufacture of pistons, segments and cylinders not cylindrical :D
It was at this point that it was decided to produce an exclusive machine, with a lot of noble materials, a sort of technological showcase for the brand. Several years between the first photos and marketing, exorbitant price: all the ingredients to create a myth. The series bike is not exceptional in terms of performance 750cm3, 135 ch; a 900 CBR of the same era does the same for 6 times cheaper!

Having worked in a Honda dealership, I had the chance to go to honda france several times, at the training center, in the classroom, there is a showcase with the most beautiful parts of the manufacturer. Of course there is a piston like the one in the photo. I could not resist asking to touch him. After finding the key of the famous showcase, I could hold in my hands this fabulous piston, and a F1 turbo. Almost on my knees, I had tears in my eyes. It's not common for simple mechanics (like me) to have access to such parts, my daily life is rather emptying, tires and pads :|
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by babache8 » 04/06/06, 14:39

Is it a PUCH engine in photo? I recognize the system of 2 pistons with a common combustion chamber, but not the low engine. My grandfather had one, there is ........ 50 years, but has air cooling. When he climbed from his little village of Herault to Paris : Shock: he had pistons in his pockets. The lubrication of the piston on the exhaust side was rather mediocre. The interest of this engine was that the slight shift in the race 2 pistons allowed to phase out the intake and exhaust; impossible on a classic 2 tps of the time (the valves were not yet invented 8) )

The V8 500cm3 4 tps it was gilera. This bike worked correctly only very rarely: 8 carbs and a lighter head : Cry: . The day of his presentation to journalists, everyone was captivated by the sound and speed of this bike. The director who was driving her, returned very quickly out of sight, pissed off. To a journalist a little too curious and insistent he launched: You do not understand anything, she walked on 7 cylinders .....
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by Woodcutter » 05/06/06, 10:56

Regarding the NR, it should also be noted that the international regulations imposed fin70 / 80 start a maximum of 4 cylinders for 500, so that HONDA, multi-cylinder specialist to 4T (must have heard 125 5 cylinders and 250 6 cylinders !!!) could not fragment the engine to be able to run its engines faster, the only solution in search of power of the engines atmo.
This NR engine was actually, to use an expression of the time, "a V8 to 4 cylinders"In my opinion, this is a very subtle diversion of an imposed limitation : Wink:

I had read an interview with a HONDA engineer who said that the segments were totally exorbitant!

Finally, on the power of the Grand Prix motorcycles, it should be noted that the NR 500 cm3 reached 120 ch (not far from 20 000 rpm) which at the beginning of the 80 years, was a sacred performance!
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by Macro » 22/10/09, 13:15

To leave is to rot a tire ... : Cheesy:
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by Flytox » 22/10/09, 20:11

babache8 wrote:... in the training center, in the classroom, there is a showcase with the most beautiful parts of the manufacturer. Of course there is a piston like the one in the photo. I could not resist asking to touch him. After having found the key of the famous window, I could hold in my hands this fabulous piston, as well as a turbo of F1. Almost on my knees, I had tears in my eyes. It's not common for simple mechanics (like me) to have access to such parts, my daily life is rather emptying, tires and pads :|


For pleasure:

Peugeot F1 piston:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
With 1 only segment thickness 0.5 mm!
For fetishists, when you go to the boyfriend to whom he belongs, you can carreser ... : Mrgreen: (the piston not the boyfriend! : Mrgreen: )
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by Christophe » 22/10/09, 20:18

Houla !!! It is not "secret defense" this kind of photos ??? :?: : Lol:
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by Flytox » 22/10/09, 20:52

Pigeot stopped the F1 in 2000, in competition the technologies go out of fashion rather quickly ..... : Mrgreen: Since the time, the engine has gained several thousand revolutions minutes, the current pistons of F1 have had to change mouth / materials.
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