Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?

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Grelinette
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Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by Grelinette » 04/08/19, 15:31

Hello everybody

This is a vast question that is often debated and some people claim that aggression is part of our genetic heritage.

History to open the debate on this potentially conflictual issue, I put it here because I see that many of the open debates on the site econology, and dealing with interesting topics, end up in a confrontation and a particular aggressiveness ... and I do not I do not remember so many conflicting debates about forum few years ago. (my inscription dates from 2008 ... already! : Shock:)

The most curious, having read several pages of fascinating comments on equally exciting subjects, is to note that some virulent oppositions come from commentators who seemed to me to defend the same opinions! ... :o

Where does this reflex come from wanting to cross iron? Is it an anthropogenic specificity?

It is true that the fashion of Duel is not so distant... and that the last duel in France dates from ... 1967 !

In fact no, aggression is not unique to man because it is found in almost all living systems, even when it is not justified.

But how to explain it? What is its origin ?
Is it genetic, hormonal, cultural, social, educational, ...

Why are we more captivated by a boxing match or a martial art match than by a fight of teddy bear (with kisses and strokes? : Mrgreen: )?

Is it the tense and disturbing context of our world whose future is uncertain today that makes us so epidermic and aggressive? ...

Paradoxically, we also see some behaviors that are the opposite of aggression!
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Re: Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by sen-no-sen » 04/08/19, 15:36

Grelinette wrote:But how to explain it? What is its origin ?
Is it genetic, hormonal, cultural, social, ...




Grelinette you are a bad student, you have dried classes! : Mrgreen: I'm joking of course!

The question has already been touched on forum and the answer is this: violence is a phenomenon of thermodynamic origin. Genetics, culture and social phenomena are only epiphenomena.
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Re: Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by Grelinette » 04/08/19, 15:45

sen-no-sen wrote:... the answer is this: violence is a phenomenon of thermodynamic origin.


Do I understand that the hotter the weather, the more aggressive? : Shock:
It is possibly a statement, but not an explanation!
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Re: Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by sen-no-sen » 04/08/19, 16:15

Grelinette wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:... the answer is this: violence is a phenomenon of thermodynamic origin.


Do I understand that the hotter the weather, the more aggressive? : Shock:
It is possibly a statement, but not an explanation!


Uh say that we should not confuse thermodynamics and thermometers.
A small catch-up pdf of our friend François Roddier on the subject of thermodynamics:http://www.francois-roddier.fr/pdf/Toulouse-m.pdf
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Re: Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by thibr » 04/08/19, 17:16

natural selection has to select what allows to survive, including a dose of aggression.
and one feels easily assaulted by reading answers on a forum : Mrgreen:
the part "La Revanche du Rower" of forum atoute discusses human, hierarchical and societal relations 8)
https://forum.atoute.org/node/173648
Re: The forums, tools of revolutions 2.0? or revenge of domination by the dominated?

Let's start with some elements that we have probably all been able to experience.

1) On forums open and general public, it is possible to observe to a certain extent a logic of individual expression, within the great movement that defines the goal of a forum : communication and exchange.
Isn't the ubiquity of "commentary" in more traditional online media the cause?
(As well as on FaceB, and simply taking into account the functioning of Twit ..)

I even had the following mishap:
With a forumWith the opinion interesting because contradictory, I tried to initiate a "public" discussion which I hoped constructive.
Instead, I got the answer:
"Make no mistake about my words, I am just giving my personal opinion on the subject which only engages me.
It's still amazing that when someone does not agree with you that you customize your speech.
Talking about others behind their back is never well received ... Honest debate faces its opponents. "
Then, then, while I insisted:
"I have already said what I have to say on the subject."
(The forum in question is private, which is why I take the liberty to repeat these words directly: the source is not identifiable.)

I add that I had not poured into personal attacks. In addition, we keep in touch.
The logic of this forumseems to me to be the following:
A discussion on a forum is a battle of ideas between 2 camps: the "for" and the "against". The expression of an opinion is done to the detriment of one of the camps. Tracking is optional.
The dialogue has no place, private conversations are there for that.

I may be wrong, and I would like your opinion on the question.

This logic, if confirmed and sufficiently generalized, can be combined at the following point (2) in a logic of domination, of an argument from authority. This is conducive to the Janis effect or group effect, herd effect, which induces an attempt to dominate a "majority" current of thought, or current of thought of the most respected individuals; strong; big mouth ; ...}.

This effect is quickly reached when the groups are of unequal size.
The cohesion of the largest group takes precedence over the desire for general consensus and reflection on the subject.
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Re: Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by Grelinette » 04/08/19, 20:46

sen-no-sen wrote:
Grelinette wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:... the answer is this: violence is a phenomenon of thermodynamic origin.


Do I understand that the hotter the weather, the more aggressive? : Shock:
It is possibly a statement, but not an explanation!


Uh say that we should not confuse thermodynamics and thermometers.
A small catch-up pdf of our friend François Roddier on the subject of thermodynamics:http://www.francois-roddier.fr/pdf/Toulouse-m.pdf

Thank you for this link that will upgrade me! : Cheesy:
That said, the people of the north, where it is colder, are reputed to be more peaceful!
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Re: Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by sen-no-sen » 04/08/19, 21:57

Grelinette wrote:That said, the people of the north, where it is colder, are reputed to be more peaceful!


Well, actually, that's not quite right.
The peoples of the North (1) (North of what?) Are generally calmer, but not really more peaceful ... the proof is that the majority of the massacres of masses are the fact of said people of the north ( Nazism, Communism, Maoism) etc ... but still it is a history of thermodynamics. The organization proper to its societies facilitated the selection of the most cooperative behaviors, facilitating the implementation of deadly and very efficient methodologies.
Besides, how many countries in the South have the bomb? (2)
The fact of living in colder areas pushed the tribes of its territories to develop a set of technology (to prepare the winter in particular) which then ensured the technological supremacy. The Amerindian genocide is a typical case of the encounter between a technological power and more primitive peoples ... 25 balance sheet at 30 million dead at least!




(1) Globally located in the north of the Mediterranean (Europe) on the Eurasia side and above the 30th parallel on the American side.
(2) If we count Pakistan and India (former English colonies this explains that) all the other nuclear powers are located in the north.
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Re: Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by Grelinette » 05/08/19, 11:37

For once, the atavistic aggressiveness of the human being may finally be able to be detected and regulated through technology! ...

Thanks to Elon Musk, small pieces of Artificial Intelligence will be implanted in our brains and will be able to take over when our brains derail! : Cheesy:
A little like the autopilot who takes control of a plane that picks up for reasons of human error, to try to put it back on track ...

https://www.contrepoints.org/2019/08/03 ... au-machine

https://www.sciencesetavenir.fr/sante/c ... ute_136090

On July 16, 2019, American entrepreneur Elon Musk and his team of researchers presented at a demonstration in San Francisco the state of progress of the Neuralink system, a brain-machine interface, also described in a white paper (no published in a scientific journal). The interface, which according to Elon Musk could "achieve a kind of symbiosis with artificial intelligence", is a device implantable in the brain. It is made up of an electronic chip connected to more than 3000 recording and stimulation microelectrodes, which would be placed on the brain using a high-precision surgical robot, also presented by the manufacturer. Still according to Elon Musk, the system could help treat psychiatric and neurological pathologies (such as paraplegia or quadriplegia) but also, in the future, to increase human capacities by promoting, for example, the learning of foreign languages. Neuralink has so far, according to the white paper, been tested only on rats. ...


When the natural cephalic means of man do not allow him to manage with common sense and find solutions to the problems he has created, technology can help him ... Finally, why not?

I see a line of small colored leds implanted on our foreheads: when it is the green that lights up, everything is fine, when it is blue, it is neutral, the orange, attention it turbine, and the red, nothing goes: imminent control of the brain by implanted AI chip. :P
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Re: Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by eclectron » 06/08/19, 09:17

Grelinette wrote:Hello everybody

This is a vast question that is often debated and some people claim that aggression is part of our genetic heritage.

History to open the debate on this potentially conflictual issue, I put it here because I see that many of the open debates on the site econology, and dealing with interesting topics, end up in a confrontation and a particular aggressiveness ... and I do not I do not remember so many conflicting debates about forum few years ago. (my inscription dates from 2008 ... already! : Shock:)

The most curious, having read several pages of fascinating comments on equally exciting subjects, is to note that some virulent oppositions come from commentators who seemed to me to defend the same opinions! ... :o

Where does this reflex come from wanting to cross iron? Is it an anthropogenic specificity?

Aggression is simply explained by survival. Which can be partly genetic, epigenetic and cultural (learned), or whatever.

Theoretically, if we had a well-made head, survival should only concern the integrity of the physical body and period, but as we identify with our thoughts, the same survival reaction occurs when we "exchange", or rather when we oppose ideas. : Lol:

An idea contrary to my ideas challenges the mental construct I have developed throughout my life.
Mental construction that I hold, which made me safe until then, that I mastered more or less.
The other comes to attack MY mental construction, and therefore ME, since I identify with my mental construction.

Instability, creates insecurity, fear, and comes aggression as a defense reaction, just to preserve one's ideas.
It is quite unhealthy behavior but we are + 7Mds to do it, so it's normal. : Lol:
The awareness of its interior in the moment* helps cure this disease.
* Easier to do after the fact than in the moment, which does not have the same efficiency.
We are so made, to varying degrees, aggressive depending on the moment, what we eat or drunk etc.

Let's personalize the debate:
It all depends on how the person expresses himself.
Personally (culturally so ...) I hate any intrusive speech, faculty that comes to tell me how I should think, or tell me that I think badly.
Which is very different in form, of a discourse that presents another opinion in an open way, leaving me the choice to adhere to it or not.
I understand that I sometimes practice what I'm sorry for ... : Lol:

Let's personalize a little more:
When Ahmed et Sen-no-sen come with their speech and vocabulary of F Rodier (which closes the exchange to the uninitiated but let's go ...), tell me that everything is done and that whatever we do everything is fucked, I feel assaulted, denied in my nobody.
I do not know if that's really what you think but that's how I perceive your speech.

This comes to attack my mental construction, because it contradicts the hope that I have in me that we can go to a better world.
It's up to us humans to make this planet a paradise, I'm sure, it's obvious.
I do not want to hear "dynamic tehrmo machin" : Lol: is that we do not take the right angle to address the problem, we do not consider the right solutions.
On the other hand it is possible that to envisage the good solutions, it is necessary to revise our instinct of survival morbidly placed in the psychological sphere ... : Lol:
Or another angle welcome.

In fact, I hate closing remarks that say there is no solution (from one angle only, it's probably true).
It simply means that the angle is no longer the right one and that we have to find another angle, where real perennial solutions can emerge.

PS: Cross the iron, brings sensations, it allows to feel exist, not to feel empty.
In addition if you win the duel, you feel stronger, the EGO swells, it brings satisfaction.
The search for satisfaction is the main driver of our actions, after each finds his pleasures where he can, wherever he wants.
In the end everything revolves around "theidea to be someone "(ego), to survive, to swell, to destroy what comes to challenge it, to attack it.
Paradise on Earth as I say above can only hatch if we humans calm on the ego.
it involves challenging ourselves in our intimate, highly cultural functioning. We live in a society that values ​​the ego and that makes us sad sometimes ...
------------
I do not appreciate everything that is military but the truth is distributed throughout the planet, everyone has a little bit:
How one person (one way of thinking) can change the course of events.
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Re: Is aggressiveness inscribed in the genome of the living?




by Christophe » 06/08/19, 12:16

You suck strip of nases with your bullshit con pics debates !!

That's pretty aggressive there? : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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