The file starts from the middle school ...

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Targol
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The file starts from the middle school ...




by Targol » 04/04/07, 11:27

My 9-year-old son will be starting college next year (he "skipped" a class because he already knew how to read when he arrived in first grade).
Given that he is almost 2 years younger than all those in his class, that he is quite sensitive and that he is easily demotivated if he does not have enough "grain to grind", we asked ourselves question with his mother, whether we were not going to enroll him at the private college in the area.

The most compared to the public establishment next door: the executive, the teaching team suffering less from budgetary restrictions, additional activities.
The least: well, until yesterday, the least was unique: the price
(almost 2000 € / year).

Nevertheless, after an appointment with the director of the establishment, we were ready (with the financial assistance of stepmother and by drawing seriously from the reserves) to make this sacrifice for the good of our son.

Then, as they say on TV: "suddenly, it's the drama".
Reading the registration form last night, I came across the following sentence: "Access to the canteen will be by biometric handprint" : Shock: : Shock: : Shock:

I work in an R&D department in which the boss invests millions of euros each year. Access to the offices is by a "basic" magnetic card and even when the doors are not open to ventilate the summer.
And for poor access to a canteen, my 9-year-old son's fingerprints will be stored in a college computer !!!!
Besides the risk that these fingerprints are "stolen" (I doubt that computer security is very extensive in this kind of establishment), the principle revolts me.

I think that this fact alone will cancel the registration of my son but, as I learned since the time that I recognize the relevance of your opinions, I allow myself to ask you what you think even if this post n has little to do with Econology ....
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zac
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by zac » 04/04/07, 11:43

Hello

Targol wise man. we never know how the coping starts but we all know how it ends (see recent history).

Also don't panic about fingerprint theft; the school doesn't need it. :P
this kind of carpet marketer will first of all seek to amortize this beautiful biometric installation and its supplier will be happy to provide him with a customer file : Evil: : Evil: : Evil:

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ThierrySan
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by ThierrySan » 04/04/07, 11:59

I agree with you on the Targol principle: biometric makes it possible to file people. A simple magnetic card would be more than enough.
But maybe it is a system under test ?! Maybe this system is not connected anywhere on the school network and it is isolated ?!
In my opinion, before making a final decision, you should find out about the school's objective by installing this system. Unless you can enroll your son in another school that can give him what he needs, and not far from your home ...
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Misterloxo
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by Misterloxo » 04/04/07, 12:02

I am surprised that the fingerprint is collected for access to a canteen.

Look what we find on the cnil:

Biometrics: four refusals to authorize the use of white fingerprints

30/01/2006 - Echoes of the sessions

The CNIL authorized, during its meeting of January 12, 2006, two devices for controlling access to a school canteen based on the recognition of the outline of the hand. However, it refused to authorize four access control and time management treatments based on the recognition of fingerprints because they were not justified by any specific security imperative.

In examining biometric devices, the CNIL takes into account the type of biometrics used: “trace” biometry or “traceless” biometry. This distinction is based on the possibility or not of recovering biometric data without the knowledge of the person.

In this respect, the outline of the hand constitutes, in the current state of knowledge, a “streak-free” biometry which cannot be used for other purposes, without the presence of the person. It is therefore a question of biometrics which does not raise any difficulties with regard to the data protection rules. This is why the CNIL authorized, on January 12, 2006, two new high schools to use devices based on the recognition of the outline of the hand in the context of controlling access to the school canteen. This brings to six the number of authorizations issued on this type of device in educational establishments.

The CNIL recalls, however, that the legal guardians of the pupils must be individually informed of the implementation of these systems and of the methods according to which they can, if necessary, refuse the computerization of the biometric data of their children. It therefore recommends that an alternative be offered to those who do not want to use biometrics.

In the case of “trace” biometrics, among which are fingerprints, the CNIL relates the mode of data storage (file or individual medium) to the existence or not of a particular security requirement. It considers that the processing, in an automated and centralized form, of fingerprints cannot be allowed, taking into account both the characteristics of the element of physical identification retained, the possible uses of these treatments and the risks of attacks privacy and individual freedoms, only to the extent that compelling security or public order requirements warrant.

Thus, on January 12, the Commission refused to implement three access control devices and a schedule control device based on the processing, in a database, of fingerprints.

For the purposes of access control processing, the CNIL considered that this objective, while legitimate, was not in this case associated with any particular circumstance justifying the retention in a database of employee fingerprints . Consequently, the processing appeared neither suitable nor proportionate to the objective pursued.

Finally, in its decision on the schedule control system, in a clinic, the CNIL recalled that the objective of better management of working hours, if it is legitimate, does not in itself justify the recording in a biometric reader of the templates of the fingerprints of the employees.



source: http://www.cnil.fr/index.php?id=1938

So a priori, an identification on the recognition of the outline of the hand was authorized. On the other hand, the storage of the non-fingerprint (apart from imperative security conditions.

I know a company that wanted to impress its customers and had planned an identification (access to premises ...) of its employees by fingerprints.

So at the entrance, biometric sensor ...

Only here the CNIL refused (unfavorable opinion) the implementation of this automated processing of nominative info. Particularly with regard to advanced security objectives and especially the fact that fingerprints had to be stored on a server.

Summary of the races, as the company had already wired everything and installed its sensors and the stumbling block was the centralized storage of fingerprints, it ended up obtaining a favorable opinion by storing the biometric data of the employees on a badge which is personal and unique.

Yes yes, you read well. So, the employees badge so that the system becomes aware of the fingerprint and then the employees put their finger on the biometric sensor!



On the other hand, it is important to emphasize that such processing of personal information must have received a favorable opinion from the CNIL BEFORE their implementation.

So in your case, the college must have a file number with the CNIL.

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Rabbit
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by Rabbit » 04/04/07, 12:23

It is not easy to answer this question.
On the one hand your son having facilities it is really essential
allow it to cultivate and fulfill its potential. People
having too many facilities and having missed their studies are legion.
By experience I can tell you that when it's too easy, we
did very well in elementary school without doing anything, at the start of secondary school
the notes drop slightly but without doing more.
after we start to hang up and that galley .The big
problem is that we have not learned to work / study. And more
advanced studies plus these qualities become vital.

Two of my sons also have these facilities, they just need to read 2 times
a text to know it by heart. They juggle math as well
than other subjects. They have been 3 years from a public school
and didn’t give anything away. They even convinced me that there wasn’t
exams during the year, or even at the end. I believed them because they
succeeded with an average of 95%.
I finally realized that they were taking it easy and I got them
sent from a private school or it does not laugh. Nothing to see
what they have to study, I sometimes get some benefits.
stalled for 2 months, then regained their level.

It is true that it is more expensive (and not just a little) but now
I have no more regrets, I know that they constitute a solid
luggage.
If I can advise you, be attentive to the school environment.

With regard to biometric fingerprints, we will have to do with it.
It is an illusion to believe that one can still remain anonymous.
The ricans have already started to file young people for good
cause (among other things) europe will soon follow. The next step
it will be the chips implanted in the body that will allow tracking
the slightest movement of the citizen. Note that it is already done except that
the chip is in your mobile phone.
Don't be paranoid, as long as you're a respectful citizen
you shouldn't make laws. Dictatorships didn't wait
the electronics and IT facilities to work.

Now if it really worries you, think about the next
elections.
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elephant
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by elephant » 04/04/07, 12:33

on the one hand I understand that this school has chosen this system because the students are big fraudsters in general: not long ago, a friend told me about a 15-year-old student who presented her parents with a monthly completely bogus newsletter, probably made on a friend's computer ....

on the other hand, being myself quite dishonest, I will find it quite annoying that my fingerprints are somewhere ....
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Targol
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by Targol » 04/04/07, 12:39

Thank you to all of you for your reactions and in particular to MisterLoxo for its details regarding the types of sensors used.

To answer Rabbit, I would take my own example: I did all my college in relatively strict private establishments but, in high school (for reasons that I don't know, maybe financial), we found my 2 brothers , my sister and I in a relatively cool and glue-free public high school.

I think, with hindsight that my high school years were the 3 worst years of my parents' life: we are 3 brothers with a year of difference between each. The elder having repeated twice, the youngest one and me zero, the three of us arrived together at the school.

Helping adolescence, learning this new freedom gave rise to many excesses that my parents took right in the G ...; all that multiplied by 3.

Where I am coming from is that financially, I doubt that we can assume college AND high school at its prices there (especially that a little sister arrives behind).

I wonder if it would not be wise to keep our savings for high school instead ....

But that has little to do with the subject.

Otherwise, Rabbit, I would like to react to your sentence "As far as biometric fingerprints are concerned, we will have to deal with it.".
I do not agree, if indeed everyone remains passive in front of this insidious cop, it will be done. If people protest and refuse to give their fingerprint, their DNA (as some GMO harvesters have done), They will not pass (which can be translated in Spanish by "no passaran" : Mrgreen:)
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zac
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by zac » 04/04/07, 12:44

Rabbit wrote:I finally realized that they were taking it easy and I got them
sent from a private school or it does not laugh. Nothing to see
what they have to study, I sometimes get some benefits.
stalled for 2 months, then regained their level.

It is true that it is more expensive (and not just a little) but now
I have no more regrets, I know that they constitute a solid
luggage.
If I can advise you, be attentive to the school environment.


Hello

You have the pot to have malleable kids; because this system ends 9 times out of 10 in disaster.

For smart kids: think of cned is not expensive, the level is exceptional and the kids work at their own pace.

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crispus
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by crispus » 04/04/07, 13:53

zac wrote:For smart kids: think of cned is not expensive, the level is exceptional and the kids work at their own pace.


Not so simple: my 14-year-old daughter has just passed in 1ere, but she was refused enrollment in the cned: under 16 it is the inspector of the academy who decides, not the parents. "Risk of unsociability" they said ... Concretely the cned is reserved for sick or expatriate children.

As the public college refused an additional class jump, he had to be enrolled in 3rd in the private sector, without a transport subsidy since "except school card".

Thus, since the age of 12, she gets up at 6 am to take the bus and return to the city.

But that's the price of "socializing" ...
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gegyx
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by gegyx » 04/04/07, 14:02

Ironic mode:
If it is a device that detects fingerprints, we can find an educational advantage ...
: Arrow: Obligation to wash hands before going to the table, otherwise stained hands are not recognized.
Finally, isn't this device there to monitor children's cleanliness before registering their participation in the canteen?
It's a device, 2 in 1 ...
(Even 3 in 1, if the files are resold ...)
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