The hydrogen vehicle seen by TOTAL

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
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by Christophe » 28/01/08, 18:49

jean63 wrote:OK, I see for micro-algae. It is necessary to find zones protected from the big storms and the place in these zones because there are also the fish farms of more and more numerous.


Uh ... I don't see the connection with fish and storms: we can very well cultivate micro algae in the desert ... well, all you need is water ...

What microalgae need (I worked in algaculture) is a maximum of:
- Light
- CO2

+ a little nitrogen fertilizer (but not compulsory)

And it's gone! Biomass can double in 24 hours under optimum conditions! A bit like a field of rapeseed doubling every day ... it leaves you dreaming huh?
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by Christophe » 28/01/08, 18:55

Remundo wrote:Now, oil, even renewable, makes CO2 / NOx and therefore it pollutes the city. This is why from a clean air perspective, initiatives like that of BMW are needed. But it is not yet satisfactory because H2 is hellish to store / compress / produce.


Well, one doesn't prevent the other! One can very well imagine making H2 with algae oil ...

Remundo wrote:Another problem: the fields that you suggest shade the seabed. There is no doubt that there will not be much life under the carpet. Finally for surfaces of the order of the ocean ... : Cheesy:


Hu? I said that we could imagine in places making "floating" seaweed farms that does not mean that it is an obligation ... quite the contrary: deserts would be ideal for algaculture. source of water and CO2 nearby ...

Finally your pitch is a bit in the same style as those who say that wind turbines slow the wind ... even if it is true scientifically speaking, the overall impact is still ridiculous ... : Mrgreen:
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by Remundo » 29/01/08, 15:41

Yes yes Christophe, I myself was not very convinced, as I said, on the scale of the ocean, it is negligible.

To make H2 from oil, why not ... we could consider a dehydrogenation process manufacturing alkene and H2. Or reforming, but it's not terrible because it makes CO2.

On the other hand, shouldn't we need a little fertile soil in addition to CO2 and light ... because organic molecules do not a priori transmute from Sicily, even if I know that it is very fashion on the forum "Minato engine", transmutation ... :D

I rely on your skills.

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by Christophe » 29/01/08, 15:50

Remundo wrote:but it's not great because it makes CO2.


If it is reformed at the factory level, on the contrary it is an advantage to have CO2 ...

Remundo wrote:On the other hand, shouldn't we need a little fertile soil in addition to CO2 and light ... because organic molecules do not a priori transmute from Sicily, even if I know that it is very fashion on the forum "Minato engine", transmutation ... :D

I rely on your skills.


Gruike? What land?

The algae are placed in basins (polyethylene if I remember correctly) called raceway which form (hence their name) a circuit. Algae need nitrogen, which is drawn from the atmosphere, so they are permanently set in motion using a paddle wheel. This setting in motion also makes it possible to homogenize the culture medium (nutrients).

Raceways have been used since the 50s.

Image

You will find lots of info on the net: Google Image

What I mean by that: the algae are not in contact with the earth and it is precisely the condamination of the environment (rotifer, amoebas ...) which poses problems for the good development of a culture and a the yield of a crop.
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by Remundo » 29/01/08, 16:52

Thank you Christophe.

There are still the nutrients providing carbon / hydrogen : Cheesy: , brought in liquid form, it's a kind of "liquid earth" ... all of this producing oil in the end ... For nitrogen, Ok, it's free in the air!

Thanks for the link, I'm going to watch this, it's an area I'm discovering!

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by Christophe » 29/01/08, 17:09

Remundo wrote:Thank you Christophe.

There are still the nutrients providing carbon / hydrogen : Cheesy:


Yep: CO2 and H2O :D

Remundo wrote:it is a kind of "liquid earth" ...


No, on the other hand, we can "boost" their growth exactly like classic agriculture: nitrate, phosphates + oliogoélement ...

But CO2, N2, light and water are enough! After all, it's a question of compromise ... gain / cost of inputs ...

ps: we have some docs on oils by algae on the site, here is the last article: https://www.econologie.com/huile-carbura ... -3577.html
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by Did67 » 29/01/08, 17:28

Christophe wrote: ... it is not marketed (in France I suppose?).


No: EVERYWHERE. BMW advertises "image", with a prototype, to occupy the field and take care of its image ... and make people dream! And, in the meantime, sell cars that are certainly sophisticated, but archi-classic and quite polluting.

Among all the manufacturers, they have taken a very unique option, in which they believe: the H² heat engine! Unlike the others which are on hybrids - which is only a small improvement of current cars, which brings little, in no case a "rupture" - or on the fuel cell - which is a total rupture (no possible intermediate period, where we can fill up with gasoline when we do not find liquid H²) which could still take a little time to materialize.
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by Christophe » 29/01/08, 17:36

Did67 wrote:No: EVERYWHERE. BMW advertises "image", with a prototype, to occupy the field and take care of its image ... and make people dream! And, in the meantime, sell cars that are certainly sophisticated, but archi-classic and quite polluting.


It does not prevent that to my knowledge BM is the only manufacturer to offer series a start & stop and especially a braking regeneration system (in addition to the DPF) see the subject efficient Dynamics

Ok you will say to me: considering the price of BM you pay them these options in the basic price, yes but it does not prevent that nothing obliged them to do it ... if?

I think the Serie 7 H2 will be released to balance the average CO2 emissions of the BM range ... to avoid fines. It's their "CO2 joker" in a way ...
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by Did67 » 29/01/08, 18:47

Christophe wrote: series a start & stop and especially a braking regeneration system (in addition to the DPF) see the subject efficient Dynamics


The "start and stop", Citroën did it on a C3 model I believe (or C2?). A commercial flop, to my knowledge ... Not energy recovery under braking!

Chrsitophe wrote:I think the Serie 7 H2 will be released to balance the average CO2 emissions of the BM range ... to avoid fines. It's their "CO2 joker" in a way ...


I do not know if it is marketable and if we will find H² outside the two or three experimental outlets (installed for TV cameras ???).

But the stake is well that which you indicate, apart from the image! It's still pretty crazy to find such an advertising campaign (I also saw it in France in a general magazine) for a car that you can't buy !!!
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by Christophe » 29/01/08, 18:56

Did67 wrote:The "start and stop", Citroën did it on a C3 model I believe (or C2?). A commercial flop, to my knowledge ... Not energy recovery under braking!


For the flop I don't know but it billed € 850 ... so it's not in series.

Did67 wrote:I do not know if it is marketable and if we will find H² outside the two or three experimental outlets (installed for TV cameras ???).


To avoid paying CO2 fines, they will find an arrangement with TOTAL France so that there are 2 or 3 H2 pumps in Paris ... in order to be able to sell the vehicle to some Parisian businessmen ... and hop their average CO2 drop ... (a 0 is always very bad in an average I remember ... I had a few : Mrgreen: )

Did67 wrote:But the stake is well that which you indicate, apart from the image! It's still pretty crazy to find such an advertising campaign (I also saw it in France in a general magazine) for a car that you can't buy !!!


The image always the image ...personally it does not shock me more than the EdF ads with wind turbines and, worse, the GdF TV campaign which promotes solar and geothermal energy ...

The image ... always the image ...
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